On the Governance of God 7.101–8.25
Latin text: CSEL 8 (Latin text: CSEL, digitized by Open Greek and Latin (csel-dev, University of Leipzig), CC BY-SA 4.0).English: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), public domain (CC0).
Chapter 7
7.101CSEL 8:188–189
Scio quia intolerabilia quibusdam uidentur ista quae dicimus: sed ratione rerum agendum est, non libidine uoluntatum. dicat mihi quisquis ille est, qui indignatur me ista dicere: numquid non sapientissimus omnium Socrates semper existimatus est, testimonio scilicet etiam Delfici daemonis, qui quasi princeps philosophorum sicut daemoniorum erat? uideamus ergo quas Socrates de pudicitia leges sanxerit et quas illi, de quibus loquimur. uxorem, inquit Socrates, propriam nullus habeat, matrimonia enim cunctis debent esse communia; sic namque maior erit concordia ciuitatum, si omnes uiri feminis sine discretione omnibus misceantur et omnes se scilicet feminae omnibus uiris sine distinctione substernant, ac si fiant omnes uiri omnium mulierum mariti, omnes feminae uirorum omnium uxores.
I know that what we say seems intolerable to some: but one must proceed by the reason of things, not the lust of wishes. Let whoever is indignant at my saying these things tell me: was not Socrates always thought the wisest of all, by the testimony indeed of the Delphic demon, who was as it were the chief of the philosophers as he was of the demons? Let us see, then, what laws Socrates established about chastity and what those of whom we speak established. “Let no one,” says Socrates, “have his own wife, for marriages ought to be common to all; for so the concord of cities will be greater, if all men mingle with all women without distinction and all women submit themselves to all men without distinction, and all men become husbands of all women and all women wives of all men.”
Notes and citation
Summary: Socrates, called wisest by the Delphic oracle, taught that wives should be held in common.
- Plato, Republic 5.457c–d, put in the mouth of Socrates; the Delphic oracle declared Socrates wisest (Plato, Apology 21a). The chapter numeral “XXIII” is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (chapter numeral leaked into the text): XXIII. Scio quia intolerabilia → Scio quia intolerabilia.
Extrabiblical texts: Plato, Resp. 5.457c (Plato (works); allusion)
Topics: Marriage
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 7.101 (CSEL 8:188–189; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-101). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-101
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
7.102CSEL 8:189
numquid ullum umquam aut freneticum aut daemoniacum, uaria insaniarum labe furiosum, tale aliquid locutum esse cognouimus? tu dicis, maxime philosophorum, hac ratione omnes uiros esse feminarum omnium maritos et omnes feminas uirorum omnium uxores et paruulos omnes omnium filios. at ego hac ratione dico neque ullum uirum ullius feminae maritum neque ullam mulierem ullius masculi uxorem neque ullum pignus ullius parentis filium; ubi enim promiscua omnia et confusa sunt, nemo est qui suum possit aliquid uindicare.
Have we ever known any madman or demoniac, raving with various stains of insanity, to have said such a thing? You say, greatest of philosophers, that by this reasoning all men are husbands of all women and all women wives of all men and all little ones children of all. But I say that by this reasoning no man is husband of any woman, no woman wife of any male, no child the son of any parent; for where everything is promiscuous and confused, there is no one who can claim anything as his own.
Notes and citation
Summary: Common wives would mean no one is husband, wife, or child of anyone.
Topics: Marriage
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 7.102 (CSEL 8:189; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-102). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-102
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
7.103CSEL 8:189
nec suffecit sapientissimo, ut quidam aiunt, philosopho docere hoc, nisi ipse fecisset; uxorem enim suam alteri uiro tradidit, scilicet sicut etiam Romanus Cato, id est alius Italiae Socrates. ecce quae sunt et Romanae et Atticae sapientiae exempla: omnes penitus maritos, quantum in ipsis fuit, lenones uxorum suarum esse fecerunt. sed uicit tamen Socrates, qui de hac re et libros condidit et memoriae haec pudenda mandauit. plus habet unde gloriari sibi praeceptis suis possit: quantum ad doctrinam suam pertinet, lupanar fecit e mundo.
Nor was it enough for the wisest philosopher, as some say, to teach this unless he did it himself; for he handed his wife to another man, just as the Roman Cato too, that is, another Socrates of Italy. Behold the examples of Roman and Attic wisdom: they made all husbands, as far as lay in them, pimps of their own wives. But Socrates won, who both wrote books on this and committed these shameful things to memory. He has more to glory in from his precepts: as far as his teaching goes, he made the world a brothel.
Notes and citation
Summary: Socrates and Cato gave their wives to others, making husbands pimps.
- Cato the Younger gave his wife Marcia to Hortensius (Plutarch, Cato Minor 25). The story about Socrates is a hostile tradition.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (OCR slip): neo suffecit sapientissimo → nec suffecit sapientissimo.
Extrabiblical texts: Plutarch, Cat. Min. 25 (Plutarch; allusion)
Topics: Marriage
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 7.103 (CSEL 8:189; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-103). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-103
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
7.104CSEL 8:189–190
iniuste damnatus dicitur a iudicibus. et uerum est; rectius enim eum haec talia praedicantem genus damnaret humanum, sicut absque dubio damnauit. nam cum in hac re doctrinam eius omnes repudiauerint, omnes eum non solum sententiae auctoritate, sed, quod multo maius est, uitae electione damnauerunt, et recte.
He is said to have been unjustly condemned by the judges. And it is true; for more rightly would the human race condemn him for preaching such things, as without doubt it did condemn him. For since all have rejected his teaching in this matter, all have condemned him not only by the authority of a sentence but, what is much greater, by the choice of their lives; and rightly.
Notes and citation
Summary: Humanity rightly condemned Socrates’ teaching by its way of life.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 7.104 (CSEL 8:189–190; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-104). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-104
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
7.105CSEL 8:190
conferantur enim cum his, quae ille constituit, illa quae statuerunt hi, quos dominari Africae deus iussit. statuit ille ut nullus penitus suam haberet uxorem, isti ut nullus penitus non suam; ille ut omnis femina alium omnibus subiaceret, isti ut nulla femina alium quam uirum suum nosset; ille generationem mixtam atque confusam, isti puram et ordinatam; ille omnes domos scortari uoluit, isti nullam; ille in cunctis habitaculis lupanaria aedificare conatus est, isti etiam e ciuitatibus sustulerunt; ille prostare uoluit omnes uirgines, isti castas fecere meretrices.
Let what he established be compared with what was established by those whom God commanded to rule Africa. He decreed that no one at all should have his own wife; they, that no one at all should have one not his own. He, that every woman should submit to all; they, that no woman should know any but her husband. He, a mixed and confused generation; they, a pure and ordered one. He wanted all houses to be brothels; they, none. He tried to build brothels in all dwellings; they removed them even from the cities. He wanted all virgins to be prostituted; they made the prostitutes chaste.
Notes and citation
Summary: The Vandals’ laws on marriage are the opposite of Socrates’ teaching.
Topics: Marriage
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 7.105 (CSEL 8:190; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-105). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-105
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
7.106CSEL 8:190
atque utinam hic Socratis tantum error fuisset, non ut complurium Romanorum ac paene omnium: qui etsi nequaquam Socratis uitam in ceteris, in hac re tamen Socratica instituta sectantur, quia et complures uiri uxores plurimas singuli et innumerae mulieres uiros complures singulae habent. omnes denique ciuitates numquid non lustris plenae sunt ac lupanaribus foetent? et quod dixi omnes, certe nobilissimae quaeque ac sublimissimae; adeo dignitas atque etiam praerogatiua est haec honorum in magnis urbibus, ut quantum praecellunt ceteris magnitudine, tantum praestent impuritate.
And would that this had been the error of Socrates only, and not of very many Romans and almost all: who, though in other things they in no way follow the life of Socrates, in this matter follow Socratic precepts, since many men each have very many wives and innumerable women each have several men. In short, are not all cities full of dens and do they not stink of brothels? And I said all, certainly all the noblest and most exalted; so much is this a dignity and even a privilege of rank in great cities, that as much as they excel others in greatness, so much do they surpass them in impurity.
Notes and citation
Summary: Many Romans live by Socrates’ precepts; great cities excel in impurity.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray mark): in hac re - tamen Socratica → in hac re tamen Socratica.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 7.106 (CSEL 8:190; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-106). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-106
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
7.107CSEL 8:190–191
et quae esse, rogo, Romano statui spes potest, quando castiores ac puriores barbari quam Romani sunt? parum est quod dicimus: quae nobis, rogo, ante deum aut uitae esse aut ueniae spes potest, quando castitatem in barbaris cernimus et nec sic casti sumus? erubescamus, quaeso, et confundamur. iam apud Gothos impudici non sunt nisi Romani, iam apud Wandalos nec Romani: tantum apud illos profecit studium castimoniae, tantum seueritas disciplinae, non solum quod ipsi casti sunt, sed, ut rem dicamus nouam, rem incredibilem, rem paene etiam inauditam, castiores etiam Romanos esse fecerunt.
And what hope, I ask, can there be for the Roman state when the barbarians are more chaste and pure than the Romans? What we say is little: what hope, I ask, of life or pardon can we have before God, when we see chastity in the barbarians and even so are not chaste? Let us blush, I beg, and be confounded. Already among the Goths none are unchaste but the Romans; already among the Vandals not even the Romans: so much has zeal for chastity and the severity of discipline achieved among them, that not only are they chaste, but, to say a new, an incredible, an almost unheard-of thing, they have made even the Romans more chaste.
Notes and citation
Summary: The barbarians’ discipline has made even the Romans among them chaste.
Topics: Ethics
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 7.107 (CSEL 8:190–191; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-107). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-107
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
7.108CSEL 8:191–192
si infirmitas id humana pateretur, exclamare super uires meas cuperem, ut toto orbe resonarem: pudeat uos, Romani ubique populi, pudeat uitae uestrae. nullae paene urbes lustris nullae omnino impuritatibus uacant, nisi illae tantum, in quibus barbari esse coeperunt. et miramur si miseri qui tam impuri sumus, miramur si ab hoste uiribus uincimur qui honestate superamur, miramur si bona nostra possident qui mala nostra execrantur. nec illos naturale robur corporum facit uincere nec nos naturae infirmitas uinci. nemo sibi aliud persuadeat nemo aliud arbitretur: sola nos morum nostrorum uitia uicerunt.
If human weakness allowed it, I would wish to cry out beyond my strength so as to resound through the whole world: Be ashamed, Roman peoples everywhere, be ashamed of your life. Almost no cities are free of dens, none at all of impurities, except only those in which the barbarians have begun to be. And we wonder if we are wretched, who are so impure; we wonder if we are conquered in strength by an enemy who surpasses us in honor; we wonder if those possess our goods who execrate our evils. Neither does natural strength of body make them conquer, nor weakness of nature make us conquered. Let no one persuade himself otherwise, let no one think otherwise: the vices of our morals alone have conquered us.
Notes and citation
Summary: Only Roman vice, not barbarian strength, has defeated Rome.
Topics: Ethics
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 7.108 (CSEL 8:191–192; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-108). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/7-108
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
Chapter 8
8.1CSEL 8:192
Arbitror, immo certus sum fastidiosam plurimis stili huius prolixitatem fore, maxime quia morum nostrorum uitia castigat. omnes enim admodum se laudari uolunt: nulli grata reprehensio est. immo, quod peius multo est, quamlibet malus quamlibet perditus mauult mendaciter praedicari quam iure reprehendi et falsarum laudum inrisionibus decipi quam saluberrima admonitione saluari.
I think, or rather I am certain, that the length of this writing will be tiresome to very many, especially because it rebukes the vices of our morals. For absolutely all wish to be praised: to no one is reproof welcome. Rather, what is much worse, any man, however wicked, however lost, would rather be falsely proclaimed than rightly reproved, and be deceived by the mockeries of false praises than be saved by most wholesome admonition.
Notes and citation
Summary: Book 8: Salvian knows his reproofs will be unwelcome, since all prefer flattery.
- The chapter numeral “I” is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (chapter numeral leaked into the text): I. Arbitror, immo → Arbitror, immo.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.1 (CSEL 8:192; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-1). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-1
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.2CSEL 8:192
et cum haec ita sint, quid agendum est? numquid uoluntati improborum hominum seruiendum? aut si sibi illi etiam friuulas laudes deferri uolunt, decet nos friuula atque inridenda deferre? maxime cum a fidelibus uiris ne illi quidem inrideri debeant, qui se rideri uolunt, sicut ne illi quidem mendaciter praedicari, qui se cupiunt titulo etiam falsae laudis ornari: quia non tam illud, quid unusquisque illorum cupiat audire, quam quid nos dicere deceat considerandum, praecipue cum propheta dicat: uae his qui dicunt dulce amarum aut amarum dulce.
And since this is so, what must be done? Must we serve the will of wicked men? Or, if they want even frivolous praises paid to them, is it fitting for us to pay frivolous and laughable things? Especially since faithful men ought not to laugh at even those who wish to be laughed at, just as they ought not to proclaim falsely even those who desire to be adorned with the title of false praise: because what each of them wishes to hear must be considered less than what it befits us to say; especially since the prophet says: “Woe to those who call sweet bitter or bitter sweet.”
Isa 5:20 (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: One must not flatter, for Scripture curses those who call bitter sweet.
- Isa 5:20.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.2 (CSEL 8:192; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-2). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-2
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.3CSEL 8:192–193
ac per hoc omnibus modis tenenda ueritas, ut quod in re est hoc et in uerbis sit, quae in se dulcedinem habent, dulcia, quae amaritudinem, amara dicantur; praesertim nunc in negotio sacro, ubi a plurimis nostrae iniquitates deo adcensentur et, ne accusabiles ipsi esse uideantur, deum accusare praesumunt. cum enim eum incuriosum et neglegentem resque humanas aut non ex iudicio gubernare aut etiam nec gubernare blasphement, quid aliud utique deum quam inertiae et abusionis et iniquitatis accusant?
And so truth must be held in every way, so that what is in fact is also in words: things that have sweetness in them are called sweet, things that have bitterness bitter; especially now in a sacred business, where our iniquities are charged to God by very many, and, lest they themselves seem accusable, they presume to accuse God. For when they blaspheme that he is unconcerned and neglectful, and governs human affairs either not by judgment or not at all, what else do they accuse God of but sloth, abuse, and iniquity?
Notes and citation
Summary: Those who call God neglectful accuse him of sloth and injustice.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.3 (CSEL 8:192–193; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-3). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-3
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.4CSEL 8:193
o humanae insipientiae caecitatem! o insanae temeritatis furorem! deum ergo, o homo! incuriosum ac neglegentem uocas. si quemlibet ingenuorum hominum hac contumelia laederes, iniuriarum insolentium reus esses, certe, si inlustriorem quempiam ac sublimiorem, etiam censuram iuris publici sustineres. pupillis enim uel maxime prodigis haec obiciuntur obprobria, perditorum hoc adulescentium speciale conuicium est, ut abusores scilicet et incuriosi ac neglegentes rerum suarum esse dicantur.
O blindness of human folly! O frenzy of insane rashness! Do you, then, O man, call God unconcerned and neglectful? If you wounded any freeborn man with this insult, you would be guilty of insolent injuries; certainly, if someone more illustrious and exalted, you would even undergo the censure of public law. For these reproaches are cast chiefly at prodigal wards; it is the special abuse of lost young men to be called wasters and unconcerned and neglectful of their affairs.
Notes and citation
Summary: Calling God neglectful is an insult one would not offer a free man.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.4 (CSEL 8:193; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-4). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-4
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.5CSEL 8:193
o sacrilegae uoces! o profanae procacitates! deum ergo hoc esse dicimus, quod etiam inter homines nonnisi perditissimos nuncupamus. quamuis non sola ista dicantur: nota quippe ei, ut ante iam dixi, etiam iniquitatis inpingitur. si enim nos quae patimur non meremur et indigni miseriarum praesentium tolerantia sumus, iniustum utique deum dicimus, qui nos iubeat mala indigna tolerare.
O sacrilegious words! O profane insolence! We say, then, that God is what even among men we call only the most lost. And not only this is said: for, as I said before, the stigma of iniquity too is fastened on him. For if we do not deserve what we suffer and are unworthy of bearing present miseries, we certainly call God unjust, who orders us to bear undeserved evils.
Notes and citation
Summary: Claiming we suffer undeservedly calls God unjust.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.5 (CSEL 8:193; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-5). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-5
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.6CSEL 8:193
sed non tam, inquis, iubet quam permittit. adquiescamus hoc ita esse. sed quam longe, quaeso, est a iubente permittens? qui enim scit nos ista perferre et prohibere potest ne perferamus probat absque dubio debere perferre quaecumque patitur sustinere. unde uidemus quia iudicii est sui ista permissio et sententia superna quod patimur. cum enim sint omnia dicionis sacrae et nutus dei cuncta moderetur, quicquid malorum cotidie poenarumque perferimus censura est diuinae manus: quam utique censuram nos inardescere facimus et peccatis nostris iugiter commouemus.
“But he does not so much order,” you say, “as permit.” Let us grant that it is so. But how far, I ask, is one who permits from one who orders? For he who knows that we bear these things and can prevent us from bearing them proves without doubt that we ought to bear whatever he allows us to endure. Hence we see that this permission is of his judgment, and what we suffer is a heavenly sentence. For since all things are under the sacred rule and the nod of God governs all, whatever evils and punishments we bear daily are the censure of the divine hand: which censure we cause to blaze up and continually stir by our sins.
Notes and citation
Summary: What God permits he judges; our sufferings are his sentence, kindled by our sins.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.6 (CSEL 8:193; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-6). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-6
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.7CSEL 8:193–194
nos caelestis irae ignem accendimus et excitamus incendia quibus ardeamus: ut recte utique, quotiens mala ista perferimus, etiam ad nos dici illud propheticum possit: ite in flammam ignis, quam accendistis. ac per hoc iuxta sententiam sacram ipse sibi parat peccator quisque quod patitur. nihil est itaque, quod de calamitatibus nostris deo imputare possimus: nos calamitatum nostrarum auctores sumus. deus enim pius est ac misericors et qui, ut scriptum est, neminem uelit perire uel laedere. nos ergo aduersum nos omnia facimus: nihil itaque, nihil est in nos crudelius nobis: nos, inquam, nos etiam deo nolente cruciamus.
We kindle the fire of heavenly wrath and stir up the burnings in which we burn; so that rightly, whenever we bear these evils, that prophetic word can be said to us too: “Go into the flame of the fire which you have kindled.” And so, according to the sacred sentence, each sinner prepares for himself what he suffers. There is nothing, then, that we can impute to God for our calamities: we are the authors of our calamities. For God is kind and merciful and, as it is written, wishes no one to perish or be harmed. We, then, do everything against ourselves: nothing, nothing is more cruel to us than ourselves: we, I say, we torment ourselves even against God’s will.
Isa 50:11 (quotation, high confidence) · 2 Pet 3:9 (allusion, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: We kindle the fire that burns us; God wishes no one to perish.
- Isa 50:11; 2 Pet 3:9.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (OCR slip; split word): illus propheticum → illud propheticum; quod d e calamitatibus → quod de calamitatibus; nos calamitatibus nostrarum auctores → nos calamitatum nostrarum auctores; deus enim pius est ae misericors → deus enim pius est ac misericors.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.7 (CSEL 8:193–194; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-7). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-7
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.8CSEL 8:194
sed uidelicet aduersum me ipsum dicere uideor, qui, cum superius dixerim, ob peccata nostra nos puniri a deo, nunc dicam nos puniri a nobis ipsis. utrumque uerum est; a deo quippe punimur, sed ipsi facimus ut puniamur. cum autem puniri nos ipsi faciamus, cui dubium est quin ipsi nos nostris criminibus puniamus? quia quicumque dat causam qua puniatur, ipse se punit secundum illud: funibus peccatorum suorum unusquisque constringitur. ergo si funibus peccatorum suorum peruersi homines alligantur, ipse se absque dubio alligat peccator quisque, cum peccat.
But no doubt I seem to speak against myself, who, having said above that we are punished by God for our sins, now say that we are punished by ourselves. Both are true; for we are punished by God, but we ourselves bring it about that we are punished. And since we ourselves cause ourselves to be punished, who doubts that we punish ourselves by our crimes? For whoever gives cause for his punishment punishes himself, according to the saying: “Each is bound with the cords of his own sins.” If, then, perverse men are tied with the cords of their sins, each sinner without doubt ties himself when he sins.
Prov 5:22 (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: God punishes us, but we bring the punishment on ourselves.
- Prov 5:22.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.8 (CSEL 8:194; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-8). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-8
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.9CSEL 8:194–195
Sed quia de impuritate Afrorum iam multa diximus, nunc de blasphemiis saltim pauca dicamus; professa enim illic iugiter plurimorum paganitas fuit. habebant quippe intra muros patrios intestinum scelus, Caelestem illam scilicet Afrorum daemonem dico: cui ideo, ut reor, ueteres pagani tam speciosae appellationis titulum dederunt, ut, quia in eo non erat numen, uel nomen esset, et quia non habebat aliquam ex potestate uirtutem, haberet saltim ex uocabulo dignitatem. quis ergo illi idolo non initiatus?
But since we have already said much of the impurity of the Africans, let us now say at least a little of their blasphemies; for the paganism of very many there was continually professed. For they had within their native walls a domestic crime, I mean that Caelestis, the demon of the Africans, to whom the old pagans, I think, gave the title of so fair a name so that, since there was no divinity in it, there might at least be a name, and since it had no virtue of power, it might at least have dignity from its title. Who, then, was not initiated to that idol?
Notes and citation
Summary: Many Africans worshipped the goddess Caelestis.
- Caelestis (“the Heavenly One”), the goddess of Carthage (Tanit). The chapter numeral “II” is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (OCR slip; chapter numeral leaked into the text; stray mark): II. Sed quia de impuritate → Sed quia de impuritate; Afrorum daemenem dico → Afrorum daemonem dico; ut, quia. in eo → ut, quia in eo.
Topics: Heresy
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.9 (CSEL 8:194–195; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-9). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-9
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.10CSEL 8:195
quis non a stirpe ipsa forsitan ac natiuitate uotus? nec loquor de hominibus sicut uita ita etiam professione ac uocabulo paganis, et qui sicut profani erant errore, sic nomine. tolerabilior quippe est et minus nefaria gentilitas in hominibus professionis suae: illud perniciosius ac scelestius, quod multi eorum, qui professionem Christo dicauerant, mente idolis seruiebant.
Who was not dedicated to it perhaps from his very stock and birth? Nor do I speak of men who were pagans in life as in profession and name, and who were profane in name as in error. For heathenism is more tolerable and less wicked in men of its own profession: what is more ruinous and wicked is that many of those who had dedicated their profession to Christ served idols in mind.
Notes and citation
Summary: Worse than pagans were professed Christians who served idols in mind.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (OCR slip): minus nefaria gentilitas ia hominibus → minus nefaria gentilitas in hominibus.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.10 (CSEL 8:195; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-10). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-10
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.11CSEL 8:195
quis enim non eorum, qui Christiani appellabantur, Caelestem illam aut post Christum adorauit aut, quod est peius multo, ante quam Christum? quis non daemoniacorum sacrificiorum nidore plenus diuinae domus limen introiit et cum faetore ipsorum daemonum Christi altare conscendit, ut non tam immanis criminis fuisset ad templum domini non uenire quam sic uenire, quia Christianus, qui ad ecclesiam non uenit, neglegentiae reus est, qui autem sic uenit, sacrilegii. minoris enim piaculi res est si honor deo non deferatur, quam si inrogetur iniuria.
For who of those called Christians did not worship that Caelestis either after Christ or, what is much worse, before Christ? Who did not enter the threshold of the divine house full of the reek of demonic sacrifices and go up to the altar of Christ with the stench of the demons themselves; so that it would not have been so monstrous a crime not to come to the temple of the Lord as to come thus, because a Christian who does not come to church is guilty of neglect, but one who comes thus is guilty of sacrilege. For it is a matter of lesser sin if honor is not paid to God than if injury is inflicted.
Notes and citation
Summary: Christians came to church reeking of sacrifices to Caelestis, which was worse than staying away.
Topics: Eucharist
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.11 (CSEL 8:195; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-11). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-11
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.12CSEL 8:195–196
ac per hoc quicumque ista fecerunt non dederunt honorem deo sed derogarunt. nam etiam ipsam quodammodo ecclesiae salutationem idolo praestiterunt, quia secundi loci officiositas honori illius proficit, cui principalia deferuntur. ecce quae Afrorum et maxime nobilissimorum fides quae religio quae christianitas fuit! dicebantur Christiani ad contumeliam Christi.
And so whoever did these things did not give honor to God but took it away. For they even offered to the idol, in a way, the very greeting given in church, because the service of second place furthers the honor of the one to whom the first is paid. Behold what the faith, what the religion, what the Christianity of the Africans, and especially of the noblest, was! They were called Christians to the insult of Christ.
Notes and citation
Summary: Putting Christ second to Caelestis honored the idol; they were Christians to Christ’s insult.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.12 (CSEL 8:195–196; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-12). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-12
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.13CSEL 8:196
cum apostolus declamet: non potestis calicem domini bibere et calicem daemoniorum, non potestis mensae domini participare et mensae daemoniorum, illis hoc satis non erat, ut cum calice dei calicem biberent daemoniorum, nisi illum etiam praetulissent, nec sufficiebat, ut mensam daemonum mensae dominicae compararent, nisi post superstitionum infamium cultus ad dei templa uenientes sacrosanctis Christi altaribus ductu ipsius diabolici spiritus spurcissimum nidorem inalassent.
Though the apostle declares, “You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot share in the table of the Lord and the table of demons,” it was not enough for them to drink the cup of demons with the cup of God unless they also preferred it; nor was it enough to put the table of demons on a level with the Lord’s table, unless, coming to the temples of God after the worship of infamous superstitions, they breathed the filthiest reek, at the leading of the devilish spirit himself, upon the most holy altars of Christ.
1 Cor 10:21 (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: They shared both the Lord’s table and the table of demons, preferring the latter.
- 1 Cor 10:21.
Topics: Eucharist
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.13 (CSEL 8:196; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-13). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-13
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.14CSEL 8:196
At, inquis, non omnes ista faciebant, sed potentissimi quique ac sublimissimi. adquiescamus hoc ita esse. sed cum ditissimae quaeque ac potentissimae domus turbam faciant ciuitatis, uides per paucorum potentium sacrilegam superstitionem urbem cunctam fuisse pollutam. nemini autem dubium est omnes dominorum familias aut similes esse dominis aut deteriores, quamuis hoc usitatius ut deteriores, ac per hoc cum etiam boni domini seruos uel maxime malos habeant, promptum est intellegere quales illic familiae omnes fuerint, cum seruiles animos iam per se malos etiam dominorum faceret nequitia peiores.
“But,” you say, “not all did these things, only all the most powerful and exalted.” Let us grant that it is so. But since all the richest and most powerful houses make up the crowd of the city, you see that through the sacrilegious superstition of a few powerful men the whole city was polluted. And no one doubts that all the households of masters are either like their masters or worse, though it is more usual that they are worse; and so, since even good masters have very bad slaves, it is easy to understand what all the households there were like, when the wickedness of the masters made the slavish minds, already bad of themselves, even worse.
Notes and citation
Summary: The powerful few polluted the whole city through their households.
- The chapter numeral “III” is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (chapter numeral leaked into the text): III. At, inquis, non omnes → At, inquis, non omnes.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.14 (CSEL 8:196; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-14). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-14
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.15CSEL 8:196–197
esto ergo, illa quae diximus ad potentissimos quosque ac nobilissimos pertinuerunt. numquid illa leuiora quae nobilibus ignobilibusque communia? odia scilicet atque execrationes sanctorum omnium dico: sacrilegii quippe genus est dei odisse cultores. sicut enim, si seruos nostros quispiam caedat, nos in seruorum nostrorum caedit iniuria, et si a quoquam filius uerberetur alienus, in supplicio filii pietas paterna torquetur, ita et cum seruus dei a quoquam laeditur, maiestas diuina uiolatur, dicente id ipsum ad apostolos suos domino: qui uos recipit, me recipit. et qui uos spernit, me spernit.
Granted, then, that what we have said concerned all the most powerful and noble. Are those things lighter which were common to nobles and commoners? I mean the hatred and execration of all the saints: for it is a kind of sacrilege to hate the worshippers of God. For as, if someone beats our slaves, he beats us in the injury of our slaves, and if someone else’s son is flogged, a father’s affection is tortured in the son’s punishment, so too, when a servant of God is harmed by anyone, the divine majesty is violated; as the Lord says this very thing to his apostles: “He who receives you receives me, and he who spurns you spurns me.”
Matt 10:40 (quotation, high confidence) · Luke 10:16 (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: Hatred of God’s servants, common to all, is sacrilege against God.
- Matt 10:40; Luke 10:16.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.15 (CSEL 8:196–197; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-15). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-15
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.16CSEL 8:197
benignissimus scilicet ac piissimus dominus communem sibi cum seruis suis et honorem simul et contumeliam facit, ne quis, cum laederet dei seruus, hominem tantum a se laedi arbitraretur, cum absque dubio iniuriis seruorum dominicorum dei admisceretur iniuria, testante id suis deo affectu indulgentissimo in hunc modum: quoniam qui uos tangit, quasi qui tangit pupillam oculi mei.
The most kind and loving Lord makes both honor and insult common to himself and his servants, so that no one, in harming a servant of God, might think he harmed only a man, since without doubt the injury of God is mingled with the injuries of the Lord’s servants; as God testifies this to his own with most indulgent affection in this manner: “For he who touches you is as one who touches the pupil of my eye.”
Zech 2:8 (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: God counts harm to his servants as harm to the apple of his eye.
- Zech 2:8.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray mark): testante: id suis deo → testante id suis deo.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.16 (CSEL 8:197; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-16). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-16
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.17CSEL 8:197
ad exprimendam teneritudinem pietatis suae tenerrimam partem humani corporis nominauit, ut apertissime intellegeremus deum tam parua sanctorum suorum contumelia laedi, quam parui uerberis tactu humani uisus acies laederetur. insectabantur itaque Afri atque oderant seruos dei et in his deum.
To express the tenderness of his affection he named the tenderest part of the human body, so that we might most plainly understand that God is harmed by as small an insult to his saints as the keenness of human sight is harmed by the touch of a small blow. So the Africans persecuted and hated the servants of God, and in them God.
Notes and citation
Summary: In hating God’s servants the Africans hated God.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (OCR slip): acies daederetur → acies laederetur.
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.17 (CSEL 8:197; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-17). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-17
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.18CSEL 8:197
Sed quaeritur forsitan quibus modis probetur odium: illis scilicet, quibus etiam Iudaeorum odia conprobantur in Christum, cum dicebant ad eum: Samaritanus es tu et daemonium habes, cum inridebant cum maledicebant, cum insufflabant in faciem eius et frendebant dentibus super caput eius. unde etiam in psalmis dicit saluator ipse, qui pertulit: omnes qui conspiciebant, aspernabantur me, et locuti sunt labiis et mouerunt caput. et alibi: temptauerunt, inquit, me, et deriserunt derisu, frenduerunt in me dentibus suis.
But perhaps it is asked in what ways the hatred is proved: in those ways, of course, in which the hatred of the Jews against Christ is proved, when they said to him, “You are a Samaritan and have a demon,” when they mocked, when they cursed, when they blew in his face and gnashed their teeth over his head. Hence also in the psalms the Savior himself, who endured it, says: “All who saw me scorned me, and spoke with their lips and shook the head.” And elsewhere: “They tempted me,” he says, “and mocked me with mockery; they gnashed their teeth at me.”
John 8:48 (quotation, high confidence) · Ps 22:7 (21:8 Vulg.) (quotation, high confidence) · Ps 35:16 (34:16 Vulg.) (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: The Africans’ hatred is shown in the same ways as the hatred of Christ’s persecutors.
- John 8:48; Ps 22:7 (Vulgate 21:8); Ps 35:16 (Vulgate 34:16). The chapter numeral “IIII” is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (chapter numeral leaked into the text; stray letter; stray mark): IllI. Sed quaeritur forsitan → Sed quaeritur forsitan; conprobantur in. Christum → conprobantur in Christum; cum maledicebant t, cum insufflabant → cum maledicebant, cum insufflabant.
Topics: Christology
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.18 (CSEL 8:197; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-18). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-18
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.19CSEL 8:197–198
ita igitur et in monachis, id est sanctis dei, Afrorum probatur odium, quia inridebant scilicet quia maledicebant, quia insectabantur quia detestabantur, quia omnia in illos paene fecerunt, quae in saluatorem nostrum Iudaeorum impietas ante fecit, quam ad effusionem ipsam diuini sanguinis perueniret. sed isti, inquis, sanctos non occiderunt, sicut Iudaeos fecisse legimus. an occiderint nescio, non affirmo, sed tamen magna defensio si hoc tantum in eis de paganorum non fuit persecutione, quod habet persecutio ipsa postremum.
So the hatred of the Africans is proved also in the case of the monks, that is, the saints of God, because they mocked them, cursed them, persecuted them, detested them, did almost everything to them which the impiety of the Jews did before to our Savior before it came to the very shedding of the divine blood. “But these,” you say, “did not kill the saints, as we read that the Jews did.” Whether they killed them I do not know, I do not affirm it; but it is a great defense indeed if this alone of the pagans’ persecution was not in them, what persecution itself has as its last stage.
Notes and citation
Summary: The Africans persecuted the monks as Christ’s enemies persecuted him, short of killing.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray hyphen; stray letter): quia in-ridebant scilicet → quia inridebant scilicet; quam ad i effusionem → quam ad effusionem.
Topics: Persecution
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.19 (CSEL 8:197–198; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-19). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-19
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.20CSEL 8:198
putemus ergo occisos illic non esse sanctos: sed quid faciemus, quod non sunt longe ab occidentibus qui animo occisionis oderunt, praesertim cum dominus ipse dicat: qui odit fratrem suum sine causa, homicida est. quamuis non sine causa persecuti sint seruos dei. nam quis dicere possit, quod sine causa, homines scilicet omnibus a se uitae ac morum studiis discrepantes, in quibus nihil uidebant suum, quoniam dei totum? maxima enim causa est discordiarum diuersitas uoluntatum, quia fieri aut omnino non potest aut uix potest, ut eam rem in alio quisquam diligat, a qua ipse dissentit.
Let us suppose, then, that saints were not killed there: but what shall we do, since those who hated with the mind of killing are not far from killers, especially since the Lord himself says: “He who hates his brother without cause is a murderer.” Though they did not persecute the servants of God without cause. For who could say it was without cause, since these were men differing from them in all pursuits of life and morals, in whom they saw nothing of their own, because everything was God’s? For the greatest cause of discord is the difference of wills, because it cannot at all, or can hardly, happen that anyone loves in another a thing from which he himself dissents.
1 John 3:15 (quotation, high confidence) · Matt 5:22 (allusion, medium confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: Hating the monks was akin to murder; it arose from the clash of their ways.
- 1 John 3:15 combined with Matt 5:22 (“without cause”), attributed to the Lord.
Topics: Persecution
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.20 (CSEL 8:198; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-20). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-20
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.21CSEL 8:198
itaque eos non sine causa, ut dixi, oderunt, in quibus omnia sibi aemula atque inimica cernebant, illi enim uiuebant iugiter in nequitia isti in innocentia, illi in libidine isti in castitate, illi in lustris isti in monasteriis, illi prope iugiter cum diabolo isti sine cessatione cum Christo. non sine causa itaque illud fuit, quod intra Africae ciuitates et maxime intra Carthaginis muros palliatum et pallidum et recisis comarum fluentium iubis usque ad cutem tonsum uidere tam infelix ille populus quam infidelis sine conuicio atque
So, as I said, they hated not without cause those in whom they saw everything rival and hostile to themselves: for they lived continually in wickedness, these in innocence; they in lust, these in chastity; they in dens, these in monasteries; they almost continually with the devil, these without ceasing with Christ. Not without cause, then, was it that within the cities of Africa, and especially within the walls of Carthage, that unhappy and unbelieving people could scarcely see a man in a cloak, pale, with the manes of his flowing hair cut off and shorn to the skin, without abuse and
Notes and citation
Summary: In Carthage monks in their habits were met with abuse.
- The monk’s cloak (pallium) and shaven head. The sentence continues in 8.22.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (OCR slip; stray mark): isti in, innocentia → isti in innocentia; maxime intrą Carthaginis → maxime intra Carthaginis.
Topics: Persecution
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.21 (CSEL 8:198; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-21). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-21
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.22CSEL 8:198–199
execratione uix poterat, et si quando aliquis dei seruus aut de Aegyptiorum coenobiis aut de sacris Hierusalem locis aut de sanctis heremi uenerandisque secretis ad urbem illam officio diuini operis accessit, simul ut populo apparuit, contumelias sacrilegia et maledictiones excepit. nec solum hoc, sed improbissimis flagitiosorum hominum cachinnis et detestantibus ridentium sibilis quasi taureis caedebatur: uere ut si quis ea inscius rerum fieri uideret, non aliquem hominem ludificari, sed nouum inauditumque monstrum abigi atque exterminari arbitraretur.
execration; and if ever some servant of God, from the monasteries of the Egyptians or the holy places of Jerusalem or the holy and venerable retreats of the desert, came to that city in the service of the divine work, as soon as he appeared to the people he received insults, sacrileges, and curses. And not only this, but he was lashed, as it were, with whips by the most wicked guffaws of shameful men and the detesting hisses of the laughing; so that truly, if anyone unaware of the facts saw these things done, he would think that not a man was being mocked, but some new and unheard-of monster driven away and banished.
Notes and citation
Summary: Visiting monks from Egypt or Jerusalem were jeered and hissed in Carthage.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (OCR slips and stray marks): non aliquem homine», ludificari, sed nouum inauditumque monstr.um abigi. atque → non aliquem hominem ludificari, sed nouum inauditumque monstrum abigi atque.
Topics: Persecution
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.22 (CSEL 8:198–199; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-22). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-22
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.23CSEL 8:199
Ecce Afrorum et praecipue Carthaginensium fidem: tutius quondam apostolis paganas urbes licuit intrare, et primum minus eorum aduentum atque conspectum feri illi ac barbari sacrilegorum coetus detestabantur. sanctum electionis uas, Paulum apostolum, de unius dei cultu ac maiestate dicentem superstitiosissimus licet Atheniensium populus patienter audiuit, Lycaonii autem in tantum et admirati sunt, ut, cum in apostolis diuinas uirtutes inesse cernerent, esse eos homines non putarent. intra Carthaginem uero apparere in plateis et competis dei seruos sine contumelia atque execratione uix licuit.
Behold the faith of the Africans, and especially of the Carthaginians! It was once safer for the apostles to enter pagan cities, and those savage and barbarous assemblies of the sacrilegious detested their coming and sight less at first. The most superstitious people of the Athenians listened patiently to the holy chosen vessel, the apostle Paul, speaking of the worship and majesty of the one God; and the Lycaonians even admired them so much that, seeing divine powers in the apostles, they did not think them men. But within Carthage the servants of God could hardly appear in the streets and crossroads without insult and execration.
Acts 9:15 (allusion, medium confidence) · Acts 17:22 (allusion, high confidence) · Acts 14:11 (allusion, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: The apostles were better received by pagan Athens and Lycaonia than monks in Christian Carthage.
- Acts 9:15; 17:16–34; 14:8–18. The chapter numeral “V” is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (chapter numeral leaked; OCR slip and stray mark; stray mark): V. Ecce Afrorum et praecipue Garthaginensium fidem.: → Ecce Afrorum et praecipue Carthaginensium fidem:; Atheniensium populus patienter. audiuit → Atheniensium populus patienter audiuit.
Topics: Persecution
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.23 (CSEL 8:199; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-23). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-23
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.24CSEL 8:199
persecutionem hoc quidam fuisse non putant, quia non et occisi sunt. latrones quidem hoc prouerbio uti solent, ut quibus non auferunt uitam, dedisse se dicant. sed in urbe illa non tam hominum fuerunt haec beneficia quam legum; interfici enim indemnatum quemcumque hominem etiam duodecim tabularum decreta uetuerunt. ex quo agnoscitur, quod magna illic praerogatiua dominicae religionis fuit, ubi ideo tantum dei seruis licuit euadere, quia a pagano iure defensi sunt, ne Christianorum manibus trucidarentur.
Some do not think this was persecution because they were not also killed. Robbers indeed are accustomed to use this saying, that to those whose life they do not take they say they have given it. But in that city these were the benefits not so much of men as of laws; for even the decrees of the Twelve Tables forbade that any man be killed uncondemned. From this it is recognized how great a privilege the Lord’s religion had there, where the servants of God could escape only because they were defended by pagan law, so as not to be slaughtered by the hands of Christians.
Notes and citation
Summary: Only pagan law protected the monks from being killed by Christians.
- Ironic. The law of the Twelve Tables (Rome’s ancient code).
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (split word; stray mark): quam legum;, interfici → quam legum; interfici; etiam duo-. decim tabularum → etiam duodecim tabularum.
Topics: Persecution
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.24 (CSEL 8:199; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-24). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-24
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.
8.25CSEL 8:199–201
et miramur, si nunc barbaros illi perferunt, cum uideamus quod sancti in illis barbaros pertulerunt. iustus ergo est dominus et iustum iudicium suum; quae enim, ut scriptum est, seminarunt, haec et metunt: ut uere uideatur de improbitate illius gentis dixisse dominus: reddite ei secundum opus suum, iuxta omnia quae fecit facite illi, quia contra dominum erecta est. minime miremur itaque aut indignemur, quod aliqua nunc illi ab hominibus mala perferant: multo illa maiora sunt, quae ipsi in deum ante fecerunt, si iuxta personarum diuersitatem aestimentur quae patiantur et quae fecerunt.
And we wonder if they now endure barbarians, when we see that the saints endured barbarians in them. Just, then, is the Lord and just his judgment; for what they have sown, as it is written, this they also reap; so that the Lord truly seems to have said of the wickedness of that nation: “Repay her according to her work; according to all that she has done, do to her, because she has been lifted up against the Lord.” Let us not wonder at all, then, or be indignant, that they now suffer some evils from men: much greater are the things they themselves did before against God, if what they suffer and what they did are weighed according to the difference of persons.
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
Ps 119:137 (118:137 Vulg.) (allusion, high confidence) · Gal 6:7 (allusion, high confidence) · Jer 50:29 (27:29 LXX) (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: The Carthaginians now suffer from barbarians as they made the saints suffer; their sins against God were greater.
- Ps 119:137 (Vulgate 118:137); Gal 6:7; Jer 50:29 (LXX 27:29). The work breaks off here in the manuscripts.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray mark): quia contra dominum erecta. est → quia contra dominum erecta est.
Topics: Persecution
Cite (SBL): Salvian, Gub. 8.25 (CSEL 8:199–201; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-25). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/salvian-gubernatione/8-25
BibTeX · RIS · CSL-JSON (whole work; this passage's key: sophiascriptura-salvian-gubernatione-8-25) · Report an error
Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin of the staged edition (corrections logged). No public-domain English translation is available to us and no FOTC volume covers Salvian, so each batch was re-read against the Latin.