Against the Nations 4.17–4.36
Latin text: CSEL 4 (Latin text: A. Reifferscheid (CSEL 4, 1875), digitized by Open Greek and Latin, University of Leipzig (csel-dev), CC BY-SA 4.0).English: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), public domain (CC0). Compare: Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 6 (1886).
Chapter 4
4.17CSEL 4:155
possumus haec eadem de Mercuriis, Solibus, immo de aliis omnibus, quorum numeros tenditis et multiplicatis, expromere. sed satis est ex uno rationem in ceteris eandem esse scire, et ne forte prolixitas fastidium audientiae pariat, cessabimus ire per singula, ne dum uos arguimus nimietatis, loquacitatis inmodicae suscipiamus et nos culpam. quid dicitis o isti, qui ad deorum nos cultum membrorum laniatibus inuitatis et suscipere nos cultum uestrorum conpellitis numinum? possumus difficiles non esse, si modo aliquid nobis dignum tanti nominis opinione monstretur. ostendite nobis Mercurium, sed unum: date Liberum, sed unum: unam Venerem atque unam similiter Dianam. nam esse Apollines quatuor aut tris Ioues numquam nobis facietis fidem, nec si testem ipsum citetis Iouem aut Pythium constituatis auctorem.
We could say the same things about the Mercuries, the Suns, indeed about all the others whose numbers you stretch and multiply. But it is enough to know from one case that the reasoning is the same in the rest; and so that prolixity may not breed weariness in the hearers, we will stop going through them one by one, lest, while we accuse you of excess, we too incur the fault of immoderate talkativeness. What do you say, you who invite us to the worship of the gods by the mangling of our limbs and compel us to take up the worship of your deities? We can be not difficult, if only something worthy of the reputation of so great a name is shown us. Show us Mercury, but one; give us Liber, but one; one Venus and likewise one Diana. For you will never make us believe that there are four Apollos or three Jupiters, not even if you summon Jupiter himself as a witness or set up the Pythian as your authority.
Notes and citation
Summary: Christians would consider worshiping the gods if shown a single, worthy god for each name, but not multiplied gods under one name.
- 'Mangling of our limbs': the tortures used in persecution.
Topics: Persecution
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.17 (CSEL 4:155; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-17). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.18CSEL 4:155–156
sed ex diuerso nescio quis: unde, inquit, scimus, an explorata et cognita theologi scriptitarint, an ut uisum est atque sedit libidinosam extulerint fictionem? nihil istud ad causam, nec sermonis istius in eo est ratio constituta, utrumne res ita sint, theologorum ut indicant scripta an aliter se habeant et multo dissociatae discrimine; nobis enim satis est rebus de publicatis loqui neque quaerere quid sit in uero sed refutare, conuincere id quod in medio positum est atque opinatio concepit humana. sed si mendaces illi, uos ueritas quae sit exponite et inrefutabile aperite secretum. at qui fieri potis est remotis magisteriis litterarum? quid est enim quod dici de immortalibus diis possit, quod non ex hominum scriptis ad humanas peruenerit notiones? aut quicquam uos ipsi de illorum ritibus potestis caerimoniisque narrare, quod relatum in litteras non sit et scriptorum commentariis publicatum? aut si ponderis existimatis nullius haec esse, aboleantur omnes libri quos de diis habetis compositos theologorum, pontificum, nonnullorum etiam philosophiae deditorum; quinimmo potius fingamus ab exordio mundi nullum aliquando mortalium † nullum esse de diis quicquam: experiri uolumus et cupimus scire, an muttire, an hiscere deorum in mentione possitis, an concipere eos mente quos in animis uestris nullius scripti informauerit notio. cum uero nomina et potentias illorum suggerentibus uobis libris addidicisse uos constet, iniquum est detrahere litteris his fidem quarum ea quae dicitis testimonio atque auctoritate firmatis.
But someone on the other side says: 'How do we know whether the theologians wrote what they had examined and known, or put forth an arbitrary fiction as it seemed good to them and as they pleased?' That has nothing to do with the case, and the reasoning of this discussion does not rest on whether things are as the theologians' writings indicate or are otherwise and differ by a great distance. For it is enough for us to speak about things published, and not to ask what is in truth but to refute and convict what is set before the public and what human opinion has conceived. But if they are liars, you set out what the truth is and disclose the irrefutable secret. Yet how can this be done if the teachings of literature are set aside? For what can be said of the immortal gods that has not come to human notice from the writings of men? Or can you yourselves tell anything about their rites and ceremonies that has not been recorded in literature and published in the commentaries of writers? Or if you think these are of no weight, let all the books you have that were composed about the gods by theologians, pontiffs, and even some devoted to philosophy be abolished; indeed, let us rather imagine that from the beginning of the world no mortal ever ... anything about the gods: we want to test and desire to know whether you could mutter or open your mouth in mentioning the gods, or conceive in your mind those whom no notion from any writing had formed in your souls. But since it is agreed that you learned their names and powers from the prompting of books, it is unfair to take away credibility from those writings by whose testimony and authority you confirm what you say.
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
Notes and citation
Summary: The pagans cannot disown their theologians' writings, since all their knowledge of the gods comes from books.
- A word is corrupt after 'no mortal ever' ('† nullum'). 'dinerao' in the digital text is corrected to 'diuerso'.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (misread letters in the digital text): dinerao → diuerso.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.18 (CSEL 4:155–156; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-18). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.19CSEL 4:156–157
nisi forte haec falsa et ea quae a uobis dicuntur erunt uera. quo argumento, quo signo? cum enim homines utique et qui haec et illa commentati sunt fuerint, et de rebus incertis ab utraque sit disputatum parte, adrogantis est dicere, id quod tibi placeat esse uerum, quod uero animum laedit id libidinis et falsitatis arguere. per humani generis iura atque ipsius mortalitatis consortia, cum auditis et legitis ex illo patre atque ex illa matre deus ille est proditus, nonne animi uestri sensum tangit humanum nescio quid dici et ex terreni generis humilitate proficiscens? aut cum esse arbitramini uos ita, sollicitudinem concipitis nullam, ne offensionis aliquid apud ipsos quicumque sunt contrahatis deos, quod ex turpi concubitu creditis atque ex seminis iactu ignoratam sibi ad lucem beneficiis Obscenitatis exisse? nos enim, ne quis forte existimet ignorare, nescire, quid istius nominis conueniat dignitati, aut natiuitatis expertes deos esse oportere censemus, aut si aliquos ortus habent, ab domino rerum ac principe rationibus quas ipse nouit [ipse] ducimus atque existimamus emissos, immaculatos castissimos puros, nescientes quae sit foeditas ista coeundi et usque ad illos ipsos principali procreatione finita.
Unless perhaps these things will be false and what is said by you true. By what argument, by what sign? For since those who wrote this and those who wrote that were certainly human beings, and both sides disputed about uncertain matters, it is arrogant to say that what pleases you is true and to accuse what hurts your feelings of license and falsehood. By the rights of the human race and the fellowship of mortality itself, when you hear and read that such a god was born of such a father and such a mother, does it not touch the sense of your minds that something human is being said, something proceeding from the lowliness of the earthly race? Or, since you think this is so, do you feel no anxiety lest you incur some offense with those gods, whoever they are, because you believe they came out into a light unknown to them from shameful intercourse and the casting of seed, by the kind services of obscenity? For we, so that no one may think we are ignorant or do not know what befits the dignity of this name, hold that gods ought either to be without birth, or, if they have some origin, we hold and judge that they were sent forth by the Lord and Ruler of things for reasons that he himself knows, spotless, most chaste, pure, not knowing what that foulness of intercourse is, and with procreation brought to an end in them by the first begetting.
Notes and citation
Summary: Myths of divine births through sexual intercourse are human and degrading; true divine beings would be unborn or produced purely by the supreme God.
- Arnobius again allows hypothetically for divine beings produced by the supreme God. The edition deletes a repeated 'ipse'. Two stray periods in the digital text are removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray period in the digital text): humani. generis iura → humani generis iura; uestri. sensum → uestri sensum.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.19 (CSEL 4:156–157; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-19). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.20CSEL 4:157
at uero uos contra maiestatis inmemores et sublimitatis tantae eas illis adiungitis natiuitates ortusque eos adscribitis quos ingeniis lautioribus homines et execrationi habeant et horrori. ex Ope, inquitis, matre et ex genitore Saturno cum suis est natus Diespiter fratribus. uxores enim dii habent atque in coniugalia foedera condicionibus ueniunt ante quaesitis? usu farreo coemptione genialis lectuli sacramenta condicunt? habent speratas, habent pactas, habent interpositis stipulationibus sponsas? et quid de ipsis condicionibus loquimur, quando et quosdam nuptias celebrasse et festas habuisse frequentias * dicere et lusisse in his deas et, quod participes [et quid] fescenninorum non essent, perturbasse discordiis omnia et hominum in posterum genus exitiorum seuisse discrimina?
But you, on the contrary, forgetful of such great majesty and exaltation, join to them such births and ascribe to them such origins as people of more refined minds would hold in execration and horror. 'Diespiter,' you say, 'was born with his brothers of Ops his mother and Saturn his father.' Do the gods, then, have wives, and do they enter the bonds of marriage on terms first sought out? Do they solemnize the rites of the marriage bed by usage, by the spelt-cake ceremony, by purchase? Do they have girls they hope for, girls promised, betrothed with stipulations interposed? And why speak of the terms themselves, when ... say that some celebrated weddings and held festive gatherings, and that goddesses made merry at them, and that one, because she had no share in the Fescennine songs, threw everything into confusion by discord and sowed the dangers of destruction for the human race in time to come?
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
Notes and citation
Summary: Arnobius mocks myths of divine marriages and weddings, including the discord that led to the Trojan War.
- The Roman forms of marriage were usus, confarreatio (with a spelt cake), and coemptio (purchase). The wedding alluded to is that of Peleus and Thetis, where Discord, uninvited, provoked the quarrel that led to the Trojan War. A gap is marked in the edition; the edition deletes 'et quid'. A stray period in the digital text is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray period in the digital text): foedera. condicionibus → foedera condicionibus.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.20 (CSEL 4:157; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-20). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.21CSEL 4:157–158
sed in ceteris forsitan minus huius eluceat turpitudinis foeditas. ergone ille rector poli, pater deorum et hominum, supercilio id est nutu totum motans et tremefaciens caelum, ex uiro concretus et femina est? et nisi ambo se sexus in obscenas dissoluerent copulatis corporibus uoluptates, Iuppiter ille maximus non esset, et usque ad hos dies et regem numina non haberent et caelum sine domino staret? et quid Iouem miramur ex feminae effusum dictitare uos aluo, quando auctores uestri et nutricem habuisse conscribunt, et ex alieni uberis alimonia mox traditam retinuisse uitam? quid dicitis o uiri? ergone, iterum dicam, tonans fulgens et fulminans et nubila terribilia conducens suxit fluenta mammarum, uagitum edidit, repsit atque ut fletum exponeret ineptissime tractum, crepitaculis obticuit auditis et ad somnos inductus est in mollissimis cunis iacens et uocibus delenitus infractis? o deorum adsertio religiosa, o amplitudinis metuendae uenerabilem monstrans atque insinuans dignitatem! sicine apud uos, quaeso, supernarum nascitur eminentia potestatum, his in lucem prodeunt generationibus dii uestri quibus asini porci canes, quibus inmunda haec omnis conceptatur et genitur terrenarum proluuies bestiarum?
But perhaps the foulness of this disgrace shines out less in the others. Is that ruler of the sky, then, the father of gods and men, who moves and shakes the whole heaven with his brow, that is, his nod, formed from a man and a woman? And unless both sexes had dissolved into obscene pleasures with joined bodies, would that greatest Jupiter not exist, and would the deities to this day have no king, and would heaven stand without a lord? And why do we wonder that you say Jupiter was poured out of a woman's womb, when your authors write that he also had a nurse and kept the life he had received by the nourishment of another's breast? What do you say, men? Did he, I will say again, who thunders, flashes, hurls lightning, and gathers terrible clouds, suck the streams of breasts, utter wails, crawl, and, when he displayed his weeping in a most silly drawn-out way, fall silent on hearing rattles, and was he brought to sleep lying in the softest cradle and soothed by broken baby-talk? O religious defense of the gods! O showing forth and instilling of the venerable dignity of awesome greatness! Is it so, I ask, that the eminence of the powers above is born among you? Do your gods come forth into the light by the same generations by which asses, pigs, and dogs, by which all this unclean flood of earthly beasts is conceived and born?
Notes and citation
Summary: The myth that Jupiter was born, nursed, and rocked in a cradle degrades him to the level of animals.
- A stray period after 'et' in the digital text is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray period in the digital text): concretus et. femina → concretus et femina.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.21 (CSEL 4:157–158; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-21). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.22CSEL 4:158–159
nec contenti hos coetus grauitati attribuisse Saturniae, etiam ipsum regem mundi flagitiosius liberos procreasse quam ipse est natus atque editus praedicatis. ex Hyperiona, inquitis, matre et ex Ioue iaculatore fulminis Sol aureus et flagrantissimus natus est: ex Latona et eodem arquitenens Delius et siluarum agitatrix Diana: ex Leda et eodem [arquitenens Delius et siluarum] * graece Dioscoris nomen est: ex Alcmena et eodem Hercules ille Thebanus, quem claua pellisque tutata sunt: ex Semela atque ipso Liber, qui Bromius dicitur et ex femine iterum natus patris: ex ipso rursus et Maia Mercurius ore facundus et gestator adfabilium colubrarum. potest ulla grauior contumelia Ioui uestro infigi aut quicquam est aliud quod labefactet aut destruat deorum principis auctoritatem, quam quod eum creditis uoluptatibus aliquando libidinosis uictum et in femineos appetitus inflammati pectoris incaluisse feruore? et quid regi Saturnio matrimoniis fuerat cum alienis rei? nonne illi fuerat satis Iuno, nec sedare impetum cupiditatum in regina poterat numinum, cum nobilitas eam commendaret tanta, facies os dignitas et ulnarum niuei marmoreique candores? an uxore contentus haud una concubinis, pelicibus atque amiculis delectatus inpatientiam suam spargebat passim, ut babaecali adolescentes solent, salax deus, et canus ex infinitis corporibus flaccescentium uoluptatum restituebat ardorem? quid dicitis o impii uel quas de uestro Ioue opinionum confingitis foeditates? ita non animaduertitis, non uidetis, cuius eum notetis probri? cuius criminis constituatis auctorem? uel quas in eum labes flagitiorum, quantas coaceruetis infamias?
And not content with having attributed these unions to the dignity of Saturn, you declare that the king of the world himself begot children even more shamefully than he himself was born and produced. 'Of Hyperiona as mother,' you say, 'and of Jupiter the hurler of thunderbolts, the golden and most blazing Sun was born; of Latona and the same, the Delian archer and Diana the huntress of the woods; of Leda and the same, ... whose name in Greek is the Dioscuri; of Alcmena and the same, that Theban Hercules, whom a club and a skin protected; of Semele and the same, Liber, who is called Bromius and was born a second time from his father's thigh; of the same again and Maia, Mercury, eloquent of speech and the bearer of friendly snakes.' Can any heavier insult be fixed on your Jupiter, or is there anything else that shakes or destroys the authority of the ruler of the gods, than that you believe he was once overcome by lustful pleasures and grew hot with the heat of an inflamed heart toward the desire of women? And what business did Saturn's royal son have with other men's marriages? Was Juno not enough for him, and could he not calm the rush of his desires in the queen of the deities, though such great nobility commended her, her beauty, face, dignity, and the snowy, marble-white arms? Or, not content with one wife, delighted by concubines, mistresses, and little girlfriends, did he spread his lack of self-control everywhere, as foolish young men usually do, a lecherous god, and, gray-haired, restore the ardor of his flagging pleasures from countless bodies? What do you say, you impious ones, or what foul opinions do you invent about your Jupiter? Do you not notice, do you not see, with what disgrace you brand him? Of what crime you make him the author? What stains of shameful deeds, how great infamies you heap on him?
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
Notes and citation
Summary: The myths of Jupiter's many affairs brand the king of the gods as a lecherous adulterer.
- The edition deletes a repetition of 'the Delian archer and the huntress of the woods' after Leda and marks a gap; the words refer to the Dioscuri, Castor and Pollux. Liber (Dionysus) was sewn into Jupiter's thigh after Semele's death. Stray marks and 'P' for a question mark are corrected.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (question mark misread as a letter in the digital text; stray period in the digital text): uoluptatum. restituebat → uoluptatum restituebat; foeditates P ita → foeditates? ita.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.22 (CSEL 4:158–159; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-22). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.23CSEL 4:159–160
ad libidinem homines proni atque ad uoluptatum blanditias naturae infirmitate procliues adulteria tamen legibus uindicant et capitalibus adficiunt eos poenis quos in aliena comprehenderint foedera genialis se lectuli expugnatione iecisse. subsessoris et adulteri persona cuius esset turpitudinis, notae cuius, regnatorum maximus nesciebat, et speculator ille, ut fama est, bene meritorum ac pessime, quidnam deceret se uelle rationibus pectoris non perspiciebat amissis. et tolerari forsitan maletractatio haec posset, si eum saltem personis coniungeretis conparibus, et adulter a uobis immortalium constitueretur dearum. in humanis uero corporibus quidnam, quaeso, inerat pulchritudinis, quid decoris, quod inritare, quod flectere oculos posset in se Iouis? cutes uiscera pituita atque omnis illa proluuies intestinorum sub inuolucris constituta, quam non modo Lynceus ille penetrabili acie possit horrescere, uerum etiam quiuis alter sola uel cogitatione uitare. o egregia merces culpae, o digna et pretiosa dulcedo, propter quam Iuppiter maximus [cycnus fieret et taurus et candidorum procreator ouorum. si aperire oculos mentis et ueritatem pro-
Human beings, prone to lust and inclined to the allurements of pleasure by the weakness of nature, still punish adulteries by laws, and inflict capital penalties on those whom they catch having thrown themselves into other men's marriages by assaulting the marriage bed. Did the greatest of rulers not know what disgrace, what brand belonged to the role of seducer and adulterer? And did that watcher, as report has it, of those who deserve well and ill, having lost the reasoning of his heart, not see what it befitted him to want? And this maltreatment might perhaps be tolerated if you at least joined him to equal persons, and he were made by you an adulterer with immortal goddesses. But what beauty, I ask, what grace was there in human bodies that could provoke and turn Jupiter's eyes toward them? Skins, entrails, phlegm, and all that filth of the intestines placed beneath the coverings, at which not only that Lynceus with his penetrating sight might shudder, but anyone else might shun even by thought alone. O excellent reward of guilt! O worthy and precious sweetness, for the sake of which greatest Jupiter became a swan and a bull and the begetter of white eggs! If you are willing to open the eyes of the mind and look at the
Notes and citation
Summary: Human laws punish adultery, yet the myths make Jupiter an adulterer who became a swan and a bull for the sake of mortal women.
- Lynceus, the Argonaut, could see through the earth. The digital text opens a square bracket before 'a swan' which is not closed; the words are translated. The sentence continues in 4.24. 'uita;re' in the digital text is corrected to 'uitare'.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray punctuation inside a word in the digital text): uita;re → uitare.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.23 (CSEL 4:159–160; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-23). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.24CSEL 4:160–161
priam intueri sine ulla uultis gratificatione priuata, miseriarum omnium causas, quibus genus ut dicitis iamdudum adflictatur humanum, ex huiusmodi reperietis opinationibus fluere quas habetis antiquitus de diis uestris et quas in melius reformare ante oculos posita ueritate renuistis. nam nos quidem quidnam de illis aliquando aut inconueniens sensimus aut conscriptionibus edidimus indecoris, ut in inuidiam iaciantur nostram labores generis humani et commoditates quibus uiuitur imminutae? numquid a nobis dicitur, ut ciconias, ut palumbes ex ouis esse progenitos quosdam deos? numquid ex pelagi spuma et ex Caeli genitalibus amputatis Cythereiae Veneris concretum coaluisse candorem? numquid parricidii causa uinctum esse Saturnum et ablui diebus statis, uinculorum ponderibus et, leuari? numquid beneficio Curetum ab interitu seruatum Iouem? numquid expulisse regno patrem et alieni iuris imperium uiolentia et fraude tenuisse? numquid pulsum a nobis senem Italorum delituisse in finibus, et quod tutus fuisset a filio, nomen Latio inposuisse pro munere? numquid incestas nuptias cum sorore Iouem ipsum dicimus fecisse nos, aut inuitatum ad ius mensae pro suillis uisceribus prolem nescium Lycaoniam pransitasse? numquid altero claudum pede apud insulam Lemnum fabrilia opera exercuisse Vulcanum? numquid cupidinis atque auaritiae causa, sicut canit Boeotius Pindarus, Aesculapium fulminis transfixum esse telo? numquid Apollinem ditem factum eos ipsos reges quorum gazis fuerat locupletatus et donis ambiguitate fefellisse responsi? numquid furem Mercurium publicauimus nos? nos esse Lauernam atque cum hoc simul fraudibus praesidere furtiuis? numquid ex nobis Myrtilus est auctor, qui Macari filiae Megaclonis ancillulas profitetur fuisse Musas? numquid rege a Cyprio, cuius nomen Cinyras est, † dictatum meretriculam Venerem diuorum in numero consecratam?
truth itself without any private partiality, you will find that the causes of all the miseries by which, as you say, the human race has long been afflicted flow from such opinions as you have held from ancient times about your gods, and which you have refused to reform for the better when the truth was placed before your eyes. For what unseemly thing have we ever thought about them, or published in unbecoming writings, that the troubles of the human race and the diminished resources by which we live should be thrown on us as a reproach? Is it said by us that some gods were begotten from eggs like storks and pigeons? That the whiteness of Cytherean Venus grew together from the foam of the sea and the cut-off genitals of Caelus? That Saturn was bound for parricide and on fixed days is washed and relieved of the weight of his chains? That Jupiter was saved from death by the kindness of the Curetes? That he drove his father from the kingdom and held by violence and fraud a rule that belonged to another? That the old man, driven out, hid in the borders of the Italians, and because he had been safe there from his son, gave the name Latium as a reward? Do we say that Jupiter himself made an incestuous marriage with his sister, or that, invited to the right of the table, he unknowingly dined on Lycaon's child in place of pork? That Vulcan, lame in one foot, practiced the work of a smith on the island of Lemnos? That Aesculapius was pierced by the bolt of the thunderbolt for greed and avarice, as Pindar the Boeotian sings? That Apollo, made rich, deceived by the ambiguity of his answer the very kings whose treasures and gifts had enriched him? Did we publish that Mercury was a thief? That Laverna exists and presides together with him over thieves' frauds? Is Myrtilus, who declares that the Muses were the little maidservants of Megaclo, daughter of Macar, one of ours? That Venus, a little harlot ... by a Cyprian king named Cinyras, was consecrated in the number of the gods?
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
Notes and citation
Summary: The shameful myths about the gods, not the Christians, are the cause of humanity's troubles; Arnobius lists many such myths.
- Pindar, Pythian 3.54–58 (Aesculapius struck down for raising the dead for gold). Apollo's ambiguous oracles deceived Croesus. A word is corrupt before 'by a Cyprian king' ('† dictatum'). The digital text has 'misenarum', a broken 'inuitatum', and a stray period; these are corrected.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (misread letter in the digital text; stray period in the digital text; word broken with stray letters in the digital text): misenarum → miseriarum; in- Ii uitatum → inuitatum; claudum. pede → claudum pede.
Extrabiblical texts: Pindar, Pyth. 3.54–58 (Pindar (odes and fragments); allusion)
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.24 (CSEL 4:160–161; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-24). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.25CSEL 4:161–162
quis ex reliquiis Pelopis conpactum esse Palladium prodidit? non uos? quis Spartanum fuisse Martem? non Epicharmus auctor uester? quis in Thraciae finibus procreatum? non Sophocles Atticus cunctis consentientibus theatris? quis mensibus in Arcadia tribus et decem uinctum? non Melae fluminis filius? quis ei canes ab Caribus, quis ab Scythis asinos immolari? non principaliter cum ceteris Apollodorus? quis dum genialibus insultat alienis haesisse in laqueis inuolutum? non commentarii uestri? non scaenae? numquid aliquando a nobis conscriptum est mercennariam deos seruitutem seruisse, ut Herculem Sardibus amoris et petulantiae causa, ut Admeto Apollinem Delium, ut Laomedonti Troico Iouis fratrem, ut eidem sed cum patruo Pythium, ut coniugalia secreta miscentibus Mineruam luminis ministram et lucernarum modulatricem? nonne ille uester est uates, qui Martem fecit et Venerem mortalium manibus uulneratos? non ex uobis Panyassis unus est, qui ab Hercule Ditem patrem et reginam memorat sauciatam esse Iunonem? non uiraginem ab Ornyto caesam cruentatam uexatam Polemonis uestri indicant scripta? non ab Hippocoontis liberis ipsum Sosibius Herculem cruciatum retulisse pronuntiat et inlati uulneris et doloris? apud insulam Cretam sepulturae esse mandatum Iouem nobis editum traditur? in Spartanis et Lacedaemoniis finibus nos dicimus conditos in canis coalitos fratres? noster ille est auctor, qui Patrocles Thurius scriptorum in titulis indicatur, qui tumulos memorat reliquiasque Saturnias tellure in Sicula contineri? Hieronymus *** Plutarchus nostrarum esse partium comprobatur, qui in Oetaeis uerticibus Herculem post morborum comitialium ruinas dissolutum in cinerem prodidit?
Who declared that the Palladium was put together from the remains of Pelops? Was it not you? Who, that Mars was a Spartan? Was it not Epicharmus, your author? Who, that he was born in the borders of Thrace? Was it not Sophocles the Athenian, with all the theaters agreeing? Who, that he was bound for thirteen months in Arcadia? Was it not the son of the river Meles? Who, that dogs are sacrificed to him by the Carians and asses by the Scythians? Was it not, first and foremost with the others, Apollodorus? Who, that while he was insulting another's marriage bed he was caught entangled in snares? Was it not your commentaries? Was it not your stage? Was it ever written by us that gods served in hired slavery, as Hercules at Sardis for love and wantonness, as Delian Apollo for Admetus, as the brother of Jupiter for Laomedon of Troy, as the Pythian for the same king together with his uncle, and as Minerva for those joining in the secrets of marriage, as the attendant of light and the regulator of lamps? Is it not your prophet who made Mars and Venus wounded by the hands of mortals? Is not Panyassis one of you, who records that Father Dis and Queen Juno were wounded by Hercules? Do not the writings of your Polemo show that the warrior maiden was struck, bloodied, and harassed by Ornytus? Does not Sosibius declare that Hercules himself, tortured by the sons of Hippocoon, came back with inflicted wounds and pain? Is it handed down as told by us that Jupiter was committed to burial on the island of Crete? Do we say that the brothers born together in eggs were buried in the Spartan and Lacedaemonian lands? Is he our author, who is shown in the titles of writings as Patrocles of Thurii, who records that the tomb and remains of Saturn are kept in Sicilian soil? Is Hieronymus ... Plutarch proved to be of our party, who declared that Hercules, after the ruin of epileptic fits, was dissolved into ashes on the heights of Oeta?
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
Notes and citation
Summary: It is the pagans' own poets and historians, not Christians, who tell of the gods' crimes, servitude, wounds, and burials.
- The 'son of the river Meles' is Homer, who tells of Mars bound by Otus and Ephialtes (Iliad 5.385–391), of Mars and Venus wounded by Diomedes (Iliad 5), and of Mars and Venus caught in Vulcan's net (Odyssey 8.266–366). Panyassis, Polemo, Sosibius, Patrocles, and Hieronymus were Greek writers. Several readings in the names are uncertain in the manuscript; 'Castors born together in eggs' renders 'in canis coalitos', which is doubtful. A gap is marked before 'Plutarch'. 'traditurditur' in the digital text is corrected to 'traditur'.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (repeated syllables in the digital text): traditurditur → traditur.
Extrabiblical texts: Epicharmus (Epicharmus (fragments); allusion); Sophocles (Sophocles (plays and fragments); allusion); Homer, Il. 5.385–391 (Homer, Iliad; allusion); Homer, Od. 8.266–366 (Homer, Odyssey; allusion)
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.25 (CSEL 4:161–162; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-25). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.26CSEL 4:162–163
nam quid de illis amoribus dicam quibus in feminas sanctos incaluisse caelestes uestris proditum litteris atque auctoribus continetur? numquid enim a nobis arguitur rex maris Amphitritas Hippothoas Amymonas Menalippas Alcyonas per furiosae cupiditatis ardorem castimoniae uirginitate priuasse? numquid Apollo Latonius immaculatus ille, castissimus atque purus Arsinoas Aethusas Hypsipylas Marpessas, Zeuxippas et Prothoas, Daphnas et Steropas inconsulti pectoris adpetisse feruoribus? numquid senex Saturnus iamdudum obsitus canis atque annorum uetustate iam frigidus nostris carminibus indicatur ab uxore in adulterio comprehensus induisse formam feri et sub pecoris specie hinnitibus euolauisse iactatis? Iuppiter ipse rex mundi nonne a uobis infamis est isse per innumeras species et petulantis amoris flammam seruilibus obumbrauisse fallaciis? numquid a nobis aliquando conscriptus est, libidinosa ut perficeret furta, modo esse in aurum uersus, modo in satyrum ludicrum, in draconem, in alitem, in taurum, et quod omnia genera contumeliarum transiliat, in formiculam paruulam, ut Cletoris uidelicet filiam Myrmidonis ederet apud Thessalos matrem? quis illum in Alcmena nouem noctibus fecit peruigilasse continuis? non uos? quis in amoribus desidem derelicta caeli statione iacuisse? non uos? et sane adiungitis beneficia non parua, siquidem nobis deus Hercules natus est, qui in rebus huiusmodi patris sui transiret exuperaretque uirtutes. ille noctibus uix nouem unam potuit prolem extundere concinnare conpingere, at Hercules sanctus deus natas quinquaginta de Thestio nocte una perdocuit et nomen uirginitatis exponere et genetricum pondera sustinere. quid quod non contenti feminei generis adtribuisse diis curas etiam sexus adiungitis adamatos ab his mares? Hylam nescio quis diligit, Hyacintho est alius occupatus, ille Pelopis desideriis flagrat, hic in Chrysippum suspirat ardentius, Catamitus rapitur delicium futurus et poculorum custos, et ut Iouis dicatur pullus, in partibus Fabius aduritur mollibus obsignaturque posticis.
For what shall I say of those loves by which, as it is recorded in your literature and authors, the holy heavenly ones burned for women? Is it we who accuse the king of the sea of robbing Amphitrites, Hippothoes, Amymones, Melanippes, and Alcyones of the chastity of their virginity through the heat of furious desire? That Apollo, son of Latona, that spotless, most chaste, and pure one, sought Arsinoes, Aethusas, Hypsipyles, Marpessas, Zeuxippes and Prothoes, Daphnes and Steropes with the passions of a reckless heart? Is it shown in our poems that old Saturn, long covered with gray hair and already cold with the age of years, was caught by his wife in adultery, put on the form of a beast, and flew off under the appearance of a horse, neighing? Is not Jupiter himself, king of the world, infamous through you for going through countless forms and hiding the flame of wanton love under slavish deceptions? Was it ever written by us that, to accomplish his lustful thefts, he was turned now into gold, now into a playful satyr, into a serpent, a bird, a bull, and, what surpasses every kind of insult, into a little ant, so that, forsooth, he might make Clitor's daughter the mother of Myrmidon among the Thessalians? Who made him stay awake for nine continuous nights with Alcmena? Was it not you? Who made him lie idle in his loves, having abandoned his post in heaven? Was it not you? And indeed you add no small benefits, since there was born for us a god, Hercules, who in matters of this kind surpassed and exceeded the powers of his father. The one, in hardly nine nights, could beat out, put together, and compose one offspring; but Hercules, the holy god, in one night taught fifty daughters of Thestius both to lay aside the name of virginity and to bear the burdens of mothers. What of this, that not content with having attributed to the gods cares for the female sex, you also add males loved by them? Someone loves Hylas, another is occupied with Hyacinthus; that one burns with desire for Pelops, this one sighs more ardently for Chrysippus; Catamitus is snatched away to become a darling and keeper of the cups, and Fabius, so that he may be called Jupiter's chick, is branded in his soft parts and sealed behind.
Notes and citation
Summary: The pagans' own writings tell of the gods' countless seductions and of their love for boys.
- Catamitus is the Latin form of Ganymede. The allusion to 'Fabius' is obscure. A stray hyphen and 'quib.us' in the digital text are corrected.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray hyphen in the digital text; stray period inside a word in the digital text): quib.us → quibus; uidelicet - filiam → uidelicet filiam.
Topics: Ethics
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.26 (CSEL 4:162–163; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-26). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.27CSEL 4:163–164
sed soli amant apud uos mares et femineo sexui sua conseruata est sanctitas? nonne uestris cautum est litteris, adamatum esse ab Aurora Tithonum, arsisse in Endymionem Lunam, Nereidem in Aeacum, in Achillis genitorem Thetim, Proserpinam in Adonem, matrem eius Cererem in Iasionem nescio quem rusticanum et post Vulcanum Phaethontem Martem in Anchisae nuptias ipsam illam Venerem Aeneadum matrem et Romanae dominationis auctorem? cum talia igitur nos probra et flagitiosa prodigia non in unum aliquem nominatim sed in omnem pariter superorum gentem quam esse nos remini sine ullius exceptione iaciatis, audetis salua uerecundia dicere, aut esse nos impios aut uos pios, cum multo maiores ferant a uobis offensas ex omnibus probris quae in illorum maledicta conducitis quam amplitudines et honores ex ritu atque officio cultionis? aut enim falsa illa sunt cuncta quae sunt prompta de singulis existimationem illorum maiestatemque laedentia, et res digna omnino est, propter quam dii funditus genus omne debeant abolere mortalium, aut si explorata et uera sunt et sine ullis dubitationibus conprehensa, ad eam perducitur res summam, ut inuitissimis uobis non generis superi sed humani eos fuisse credamus.
But among you do only the male gods love, and has the female sex kept its holiness? Is it not recorded in your literature that Tithonus was loved by Aurora, that the Moon burned for Endymion, a Nereid for Aeacus, Thetis for the father of Achilles, Proserpina for Adonis, her mother Ceres for some rustic Iasion, and, after Vulcan, Phaethon, and Mars, that very Venus, mother of the sons of Aeneas and author of Roman dominion, for marriage with Anchises? Since, then, you hurl such disgraces and shameful monstrosities, not at some one god by name, but at the whole race of gods above, whom you think we deny, without any exception, do you dare, with your modesty intact, to say either that we are impious or that you are pious, when they receive much greater offenses from you from all the disgraces you gather into slanders against them than dignities and honors from the rite and duty of worship? For either all those things that are published about each of them, injuring their reputation and majesty, are false, and it is a matter wholly worthy of the gods utterly destroying the whole race of mortals; or, if they are ascertained, true, and grasped beyond any doubt, the matter is brought to this conclusion, that, very much against your will, we believe that they were not of the race above but of the human race.
Notes and citation
Summary: The goddesses too are described as lovers of mortals; either these tales are slanders deserving divine punishment or the gods were merely human.
- Stray marks and 'P' for a question mark in the digital text are corrected.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (question mark misread as a letter in the digital text; stray period in the digital text): iaciatis,. audetis → iaciatis, audetis; cultionis P aut → cultionis? aut.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.27 (CSEL 4:163–164; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-27). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.28CSEL 4:164–165
ubi enim nuptiae matrimonia puerperia nutrices artificia debilitates, ubi status capitis et condicio seruitutis, ubi uulnera caedes cruor, ubi amores desideria uoluptates, ubi omnis animorum adfectio ab inquietis perturbationibus ueniens, necesse est diuinum nihil istic esse, nec quod proprium caduci est generis et terrenae fragilitatis praestantiori posse adhaerere naturae. quis est enim qui credat, si modo agnoscit ac percipit, uis istius potentiae quae sit, aut genitabiles habuisse partes deum et abscisione foedissima priuatum his esse, aut ex se proditas aliquando intercepisse proles et uinculorum coercitum poenis, aut cum patre quodammodo conseruisse bella ciuilia et eum iure abstinuisse regali, aut exterritum minoris metu uertisse exuperatum terga et tamquam fugitiuum et exulem in summotis delituisse secretis? quis est, inquam, qui credat ad humanas adcubuisse deum mensas, interemptum auaritiae causa, fefellisse supplices ambiguitate responsi, praecellere in furtorum dolis, adulterasse seruisse uulneratum esse et adamasse et per omnes libidinum formas incestarum cupiditatum circumegisse pellaciam? atquin omnia uos ista et fuisse et inesse in diis adseueratis uestris, neque ullam praetermittitis speciem uitiositatis maleficii lapsus quam non in conuicium numinum opinionum petulantia conferatis. aut igitur uobis quaerendi sunt dii alii in quos omnia ista non cadant — in quos enim haec cadunt, humani sunt generis atque terreni — aut si hi sunt tantummodo quorum nomina publicastis et mores, opinionibus tollitis uestris. mortalia sunt enim quaecumque narratis.
For where there are weddings, marriages, childbirths, nurses, crafts, and infirmities; where there is loss of civil status and the condition of slavery; where there are wounds, slaughter, and blood; where there are loves, desires, and pleasures; where there is every feeling of the mind arising from restless disturbances: there nothing divine can be, nor can what is proper to a perishable race and earthly frailty attach to a more excellent nature. For who, if only he recognizes and perceives what the force of that power is, would believe either that God had genital parts and was deprived of them by a most shameful cutting off; or that he once swallowed the offspring produced from himself and was restrained by the punishment of chains; or that he somehow waged civil war with his father and kept him from his royal right; or that, terrified by fear of a younger one, he turned his back, overcome, and hid like a runaway and exile in remote hiding places? Who, I say, would believe that a god reclined at human tables, was killed for greed, deceived suppliants with the ambiguity of an answer, excelled in the tricks of theft, committed adultery, served as a slave, was wounded, fell in love, and carried the seductiveness of incestuous desires through every form of lust? Yet you assert that all these things both happened and are present in your gods, and you pass over no kind of vice, crime, or fall that you do not, by the wantonness of your opinions, bring in to slander the deities. So either you must seek other gods to whom all these things do not apply (for those to whom they apply are of the human and earthly race), or, if these are the only ones whose names and characters you have published, you abolish them by your own opinions. For whatever you relate is mortal.
Notes and citation
Summary: Gods to whom the myths ascribe birth, castration, war, lust, theft, and death would be human, not divine.
- The allusions are to the myths of Caelus castrated by Saturn, Saturn swallowing his children and being bound, Jupiter's war with Saturn, and Saturn's flight to Italy. 'anim' in the digital text is corrected to 'enim'.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (misread letter in the digital text): quis est anim qui → quis est enim qui.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.28 (CSEL 4:164–165; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-28). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.29CSEL 4:165
et possumus quidem hoc in loco omnis istos, nobis quos inducitis atque appellatis deos, homines fuisse monstrare uel Agragantino Euhemero replicato, cuius libellos Ennius, clarum ut fieret cunctis, sermonem in Italum transtulit, uel Nicagora Cyprio uel Pellaeo Leonte uel Cyrenensi Theodoro uel Hippone ac Diagora Meliis uel auctoribus aliis mille, qui scrupulosae diligentiae cura in lucem res abditas libertate ingenua protulerunt. possumus, inquam, si placet, et Iouis res gestas et Mineruae expromere bella, uirginis et Dianae, quibus dolis Liber Indorum affectauerit regimen, cuius fuerit condicionis Venus, cuius operae, cuius quaestus, matrimonium Magna cuius tenuerit Mater, quidnam spei, quid uoluptatis specioso ab Attide conceperit, unde Serapis Aegyptius, unde Isis, uel ex quibus causis appellatio ipsa concinnata sit nominum.
And we could show at this point that all those whom you bring before us and call gods were human beings, either by unrolling Euhemerus of Acragas, whose books Ennius translated into the Italian language so that the matter might become clear to all; or through Nicagoras of Cyprus, Leon of Pella, Theodorus of Cyrene, Hippon and Diagoras of Melos, or a thousand other authors, who with the care of scrupulous diligence brought hidden things to light with free and frank independence. We could, I say, if you please, set out both the deeds of Jupiter and the wars of Minerva, the virgin, and of Diana; by what tricks Liber aimed at the rule of the Indians; of what condition Venus was, of what trade, of what earnings; whose marriage the Great Mother held; what hope, what pleasure she conceived from handsome Attis; where Egyptian Serapis came from, where Isis; or for what reasons the very designation of their names was devised.
Notes and citation
Summary: Arnobius notes that Euhemerus and others have shown that the gods were once human beings.
- Euhemerus (ca. 300 BC) taught that the gods were deified kings; Ennius translated his Sacred History into Latin. Diagoras of Melos and Theodorus of Cyrene were notorious 'atheists'.
Extrabiblical texts: Ennius (Ennius; allusion)
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.29 (CSEL 4:165; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-29). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.30CSEL 4:165–166
sed non istam suscepimus in eo sermone quem facimus uel operulam uel uoluntatem, ut ostendamus et publicemus, quinam fuerint hi omnes. illud nobis propositum est, quoniam nos impios et inreligiosos uocatis, uos pios contra et deorum contenditis esse cultores, demonstrare atque in medio ponere, ab hominibus magis nullis ignominiosius eos tractari quam a nobis. quod si habere se ita ex ipsis maledictionibus promptum est, sequitur ut intellegi debeat uos superis stimulos indignationum furialium commouere, qui tam foedas de illis uel auditis uel creditis uel ignominiosas ipsi compingitis fabulas. non enim qui sollicite relegit et inmaculatas hostias caedit, qui aceruos turis dat concremandos igni, numina consentiendus est colere aut officia solus religionis inplere. cultus uerus in pectore est atque opinatio de dis digna, nec quicquam prodest inlatio sanguinis et cruoris, si credas de his ea quae non modo sint longe ab eorum dissita distantiaque natura, uerum etiam labis et turpitudinis aliquid et maiestati eorum concilient et decori.
But in this discourse we have not undertaken the small labor or the intention of showing and publishing who all these were. Our purpose is this: since you call us impious and irreligious and, on the contrary, maintain that you are pious and worshipers of the gods, to demonstrate and set forth that they are treated more disgracefully by no people than by you. If it is plain from the very slanders that this is so, it follows that it must be understood that it is you who provoke the gods to the goads of frenzied indignation, you who either hear or believe such foul things about them, or yourselves compose disgraceful fables. For it is not the one who carefully rereads the ritual and slaughters unblemished victims, who gives heaps of incense to be burned in the fire, who must be judged to worship the deities or alone to fulfill the duties of religion. True worship is in the heart, and an opinion of the gods worthy of them; and the offering of blood and gore is of no use if you believe things of them that are not only far removed and distant from their nature, but even bring some stain and disgrace on their majesty and honor.
1 Sam 16:7 (echo, low confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: The pagans, who tell disgraceful stories about the gods, dishonor them more than anyone; true worship lies in the heart and in worthy thoughts of God, not in sacrifices.
- 'consentiendus' in the text is probably an error for 'censendus' ('to be judged'); translated by sense. Stray periods in the digital text are removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (doubled period in the digital text; stray period in the digital text): natura., uerum → natura, uerum; decori.. → decori..
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.30 (CSEL 4:165–166; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-30). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.31CSEL 4:166–167
interrogare enim uos libet et ad sermonis exigui responsionem uocare, utrumne grauius existimetis nullas caedere his hostias, quia putes naturam tantam neque uelle neque appetere istas, an talia de his probra opinionum foeditate concipere quae cuiusuis animum in ultionis possint rabiem concitare? si rerum momenta pendantur, nullum reperias tam † inuidum iudicem, qui non criminosius aestimet maledictis insignibus cuiuspiam famam carpi quam a quoquam silentio praeteriri. hoc enim forsitan rationis existimari possit et credi, illud sacrilegae mentis est et desperatae in fictionibus caecitatis. si in caerimoniis uestris rebusque diuinis postilionibus locus est et piaculi dicitur contracta esse commissio, si per imprudentiae lapsum aut in uerbo quispiam aut simpuuio deerrarit, aut si rursus in sollemnibus ludis curriculisque diuinis commissum omnes statim in religiones clamatis sacras, si ludius constiterit aut tibicen repente conticuerit aut si patrimus et matrimus ille qui uocitatur puer omiserit per ignorantiam lorum aut terram tenere non potuerit: audetis abnuere in delictis tam grauibus uiolari semper a uobis deos, cum in leuioribus causis irasci eos ipsi cum pernicie saepius confiteamini ciuitatis?
For I would like to question you and call you to answer a brief question: do you think it more serious to slaughter no victims for them, because you think so great a nature neither wants nor desires them, or to conceive, in the foulness of your opinions, such disgraces about them as could rouse anyone's mind to a frenzy of revenge? If the weight of things is weighed, you would find no judge so ... as not to think it more criminal to have one's reputation torn by notorious slanders than to be passed over by someone in silence. For the latter may perhaps be thought and believed to have some reason; the former belongs to a sacrilegious mind and to a desperate blindness in fictions. If in your ceremonies and divine rites there is room for demands for repetition, and the commission of a fault needing atonement is said to have been incurred if through a slip of carelessness someone has gone astray in a word or with the ladle; or again, if in the solemn games and sacred races you all at once cry out that a fault has been committed against the sacred rites, if a dancer has stopped, or a flute player has suddenly fallen silent, or if that boy who is called patrimus and matrimus has let go of the thong through ignorance or has not been able to keep hold of the ground: do you dare to deny that the gods are always outraged by you in such serious offenses, when you yourselves confess that they are angry, often to the ruin of the state, for slighter causes?
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
Notes and citation
Summary: If trivial slips in ritual anger the gods, the pagans' slanderous myths must anger them far more than Christian abstention from sacrifice.
- 'Postiliones' were the gods' demands for a rite to be repeated because of a fault. The 'patrimus et matrimus' boy (with both parents living) led the sacred chariot (tensa) by a thong in the circus procession. A word is corrupt before 'judge' ('† inuidum'). 'mterrogare' in the digital text is corrected.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (misread letter in the digital text): mterrogare → interrogare.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.31 (CSEL 4:166–167; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-31). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.32CSEL 4:167
sed poetarum, inquiunt, figmenta sunt haec omnia et ad uoluptatem compositae lusiones. non est quidem credibile homines minime brutos et uetustatis remotissimae uestigatores aut non eas inseruisse suis carminibus fabulas quae in notionibus hominum superessent atque in auribus collocatae aut ipsos sibi tantum licentiosi uoluisse iuris adsciscere, ut confingerent per stultitiam res eas quae nec ab insania procul essent remotae et quae illis ab dis metum et periculum possent ab hominibus comparare. sed concedamus, ut dicitis, deformitatum tantarum concinnatores esse atque inuentores poetas: immunes tamen ab deorum maletractatione nec sic estis, qui aut talia cessatis maleficia uindicare aut non legibus latis et seueritate poenarum tantae istis obuiam temeritati, constitutumque a uobis est, ne quis posthac hominum id quod esset turpitudini proximum aut deorum indignum maiestatibus loqueretur. quisquis enim patitur peccare peccantem, is uires sumministrat audaciae, et maioris contumeliae res est falsis quemquam notare atque insignire criminibus quam uera ingerere atque obiectare delicta. quod enim sis dici et quod esse te sentias, morsum habet minorem, testimonio tacitae recognitionis infractum: illud uero acerbissime uulnerat quod inurit innoxios et quod decus nominis atque existimationis infamat.
'But all these things,' they say, 'are the fictions of poets and games composed for pleasure.' It is certainly not credible that men by no means stupid, and investigators of the most remote antiquity, either did not insert in their poems those tales which survived in people's notions and were lodged in their ears, or that they wanted to claim for themselves so licentious a right as to invent through folly things which were not far from madness and which could bring them fear from the gods and danger from men. But let us grant, as you say, that the poets were the composers and inventors of such great deformities: even so you are not free from mistreating the gods, you who either fail to punish such misdeeds, or do not meet such great recklessness with laws passed and severe penalties, and have not decreed that no one in future should say anything close to disgrace or unworthy of the majesty of the gods. For whoever allows the sinner to sin supplies strength to his boldness; and it is a greater insult to brand and mark someone with false charges than to press and reproach him with true offenses. For what you are said to be and feel yourself to be has a lesser sting, blunted by the testimony of silent recognition; but what brands the innocent and defames the honor of their name and reputation wounds most bitterly.
Notes and citation
Summary: Even if the myths are poets' inventions, the pagans share the guilt by tolerating such slanders of the gods without punishment.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.32 (CSEL 4:167; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-32). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.33CSEL 4:167–168
scribuntur dii uestri in tricliniis caelestibus atque in chalcidicis aureis cenitare, potare et ad ultimum fidibus et uocum modulatione mulceri. uos aures patientissimas commodatis nec iudicatis indignum uoluptates attribui diis eas quibus corpora terrena fulciuntur et quas aures expetunt eneruati pectoris dissolutione mollitae. inducuntur ex his alii amatores, adulteri castitatis nec cum feminis tantum sed cum uiris etiam propudiosos flagitiososque miscere concubitus. nobis nulla est cura, quid super rebus dicatur tantis, neque ullo saltem castigationis metu luxuriantium litterarum coercetis audaciam. per insanias, per furores orbare alii se et tamquam hostili de sanguine ita se proprio parricidio cruentare: sacrilegia uos illa miramini elata sublimiter, et quod poenis omnibus conueniebat plecti, ut animosius consurgat audacia, incentiuo extollitis laudis. illi uulnera orbitatis ingemere et cum heiulatibus indecoris fata incusare crudelia: uos stupetis eloquentiae uiribus, et quod penitus oportebat ex humani generis † coalitu tolli, percensetis, ediscitis ac ne ulla intercidat obliuione curatis. uulnerari, uexari, bella inter se gerere furialium memorantur ardore discriminum: uobis illa est descriptio uoluptati, atque ut scriptorum tantam defendatis audaciam, allegorias res illas et naturalis scientiae mentimini esse doctrinas.
Your gods are written of as dining in heavenly banqueting halls and golden porticoes, drinking, and finally being soothed by lyres and the melody of voices. You lend most patient ears, and do not judge it unworthy that the gods are given those pleasures by which earthly bodies are sustained and which ears softened by the enervation of a weakened heart desire. Some of them are brought in as lovers, adulterers of chastity, having shameful and disgraceful intercourse not only with women but also with men. You have no care what is said about such great matters, nor do you restrain the boldness of licentious literature with any fear of correction. Some, through madness and frenzy, bereave themselves and stain themselves with their own parricide as though with an enemy's blood: you admire those sacrileges, exalted in lofty style, and what ought to have been punished with every penalty you extol with the incentive of praise, so that boldness may rise up more spiritedly. Others groan at the wounds of bereavement and accuse the cruel fates with unseemly wailing: you are amazed at the power of the eloquence, and what ought to have been entirely removed from the ... of the human race, you review, you learn by heart, and you take care that none of it perishes by forgetfulness. They are said to be wounded, harassed, and to wage wars among themselves with the heat of frenzied conflicts: that description is a pleasure to you, and, to defend the great boldness of the writers, you pretend that those things are allegories and teachings of natural science.
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
Notes and citation
Summary: The pagans delight in poetry that shows the gods feasting, lusting, murdering, grieving, and fighting, and excuse it as allegory.
- A word is corrupt ('† coalitu'). 'ex bis' in the digital text is corrected to 'ex his'. 'nobis nulla est cura' is taken in the sense 'you have no care' (probably 'uobis').
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (misread letter in the digital text): ex bis alii → ex his alii.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.33 (CSEL 4:167–168; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-33). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.34CSEL 4:168–169
sed quid ego neclectas aliorum conqueror contumelias numinum? ipse ille Iuppiter, cuius uos nomen effari non sine metu decuit et totius corporis concussione, amasio captus ab uxore describitur confiteri culpas suas, et uelut demens ac nescius, quas amiculas coniugi, quas uxori anteposuerit pelices, obduratus inuerecundia publicare: uos talia qui extulere prodigia poetarum esse principes atque reges diuinis ingeniis praeditos, capita esse memoratis sanctissima, tantumque ab officio religionum quas induxistis euolastis, ut grauioris ponderis sint apud uos uerba quibus caelitum uiolatur sublimitas. ita ergo non decuit, si modo ullus deorum esset apud nos metus aut si esse illos uspiam praesumptionis certissimae confidentia crederetis, rogationibus, plebis scitis, consultorum senatus metu intercedere prohibere sancire, ne quis uellet de dis passim nisi quod esset plenum religionis effari? nec a uobis saltem istum meruerunt honorem, ut quibus expellitis a uobis eisdem ab his legibus propulsaretis iniurias? maiestatis sunt apud uos rei, qui de uestris sequius obmurmurauerint aliquid regibus. magistratum in ordinem redigere, senatorem aut conuicio prosequi seueris esse decrestis periculosissimum poenis. carmen malum conscribere, quo fama alterius coinquinetur et uita, decemuiralibus scitis euadere noluistis inpune, ac ne uestras aures conuicio aliquis petulantiore pulsaret, de atrocibus formulas constituistis iniuriis. soli sunt apud uos superi inhonorati contemptibiles uiles, in quos ius est a uobis datum quae quisque uoluerit dicere, turpitudinum iacere quas libido confinxerit atque excogitauerit formas. et incuriam nobis intendere tam infamium non erubescitis numinum, cum sit rectius multo deos esse non credere quam esse illos tales talique existimatione sentire?
But why do I complain of the neglected insults to other deities? That Jupiter himself, whose name it befitted you not to utter without fear and a trembling of the whole body, is described as caught by his wife with a lover and confessing his faults, and, as though insane and unaware, hardened in shamelessness, publishing which girlfriends he preferred to his spouse, which mistresses to his wife. You say that those who produced such monstrosities are the princes and kings of poets, endowed with divine talents, most holy persons; and you have flown so far from the duty of the religions you introduced that words which violate the majesty of the heavenly beings carry more weight with you. Was it not fitting, then, if there were any fear of the gods among you, or if you believed with the confidence of a most certain conviction that they exist anywhere, to intervene, forbid, and decree by bills, plebiscites, and decrees of the senate, under fear, that no one should wish to say anything at random about the gods except what was full of reverence? Did they not at least deserve this honor from you, that by the same laws by which you drive injuries away from yourselves you should drive them away from these? Those who have muttered anything unfavorable about your kings are guilty of treason among you. You have decreed that to degrade a magistrate, or to assail a senator with abuse, is most dangerous, with severe penalties. You would not let one who writes an evil song, by which another's reputation and life are defiled, escape unpunished under the decrees of the decemvirs; and so that no one might strike your ears with more insolent abuse, you established formulas concerning outrageous injuries. Only the gods above are dishonored among you, contemptible and cheap, against whom you have given the right to say whatever anyone wants, and to hurl whatever forms of disgrace lust has invented and devised. And you do not blush to charge us with neglecting such infamous deities, when it is much more right not to believe that there are gods than to think that they are such, and of such repute?
Notes and citation
Summary: Romans protect their rulers and citizens from slander by law but let poets slander the gods freely, which shows they do not truly revere them.
- The 'decrees of the decemvirs' are the Twelve Tables, which punished defamatory songs. The episode of Jupiter confessing his loves recalls Homer, Iliad 14.315–328. The digital text breaks 'conuicio'; corrected.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (word broken in the digital text): con-, uicio → conuicio.
Extrabiblical texts: Homer, Il. 14.315–328 (Homer, Iliad; allusion)
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.34 (CSEL 4:168–169; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-34). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.35CSEL 4:169–170
sed poetis tantummodo licere uoluistis indignas de dis fabulas et flagitiosa ludibria comminisci? quid pantomimi uestri, quid histriones, quid illa mimorum atque exoleti generis multitudo? nonne ad usum quaestus sui abutuntur dis uestris et lenocinia uoluptatum ex iniuriis adtrahunt contumeliisque diuinis? sedent in spectaculis publicis sacerdotum omnium magistratumque collegia, pontifices maximi et maximi curiones, sedent quindecimuiri laureati et diales cum apicibus flamines, sedent interpretes augures diuinae mentis et uoluntatis, nec non et castae uirgines, perpetui nutrices et conseruatrices ignis, sedet cunctus populus et senatus, consulatibus functi patres, diis proximi atque augustissimi reges: et quod nefarium esset auditu, gentis illa genetrix Martiae, regnatoris et populi procreatrix amans saltatur Venus et per adfectus omnes meretriciae uilitatis inpudica exprimitur imitatione bacchari. saltatur et Magna sacris compta cum infulis Mater et contra decus aetatis illa Pessinuntia Dindymene in bubulci unius amplexum flagitiosa fingitur adpetitione gestire, nec non et illa proles Iouis Sophoclis in Trachiniis Hercules pestiferi tegminis circumretitus indagine miserabiles edere inducitur heiulatus, uiolentia doloris frangi atque in ultimam tabem diffluentium uiscerum maceratione consumi. quin et ille in fabulis maximus ipse regnator poli sine ulla nominis maiestatisque formidine adulterorum agere introducitur partes, atque [formidine] ut fallere castitatem alienarum possit familias matrum, ora immutare pellacia et in species coniugum subditiui corporis simulatione succedere.
But did you want only the poets to be allowed to invent unworthy tales and scandalous mockeries about the gods? What of your pantomimes, your actors, that multitude of mimes and of the debauched kind? Do they not misuse your gods for their own profit, and draw the enticements of pleasure from insults and outrages to the divine? The colleges of all the priests and magistrates sit at the public shows, the chief pontiffs and chief curios; the fifteen men sit crowned with laurel, and the flamens of Jupiter with their pointed caps; the augurs sit, interpreters of the divine mind and will; the chaste virgins too, perpetual nurses and keepers of the fire; the whole people and senate sit, fathers who have held the consulship, kings nearest to the gods and most august: and, what would be wicked to hear, that mother of the race of Mars, begetter of the ruling people, Venus, is danced as a lover, and is represented in shameless imitation as raving through all the feelings of a cheap harlot. The Great Mother too, adorned with sacred fillets, is danced; and that Pessinuntian Dindymene, against the dignity of her age, is represented as eager with shameful desire for the embrace of a herdsman. And in the Trachinian Women of Sophocles, Hercules, that offspring of Jupiter, caught in the snare of a poisonous garment, is brought on uttering pitiable wails, broken by the violence of pain, and consumed by the wasting of his dissolving inward parts to the last decay. Indeed, in the plays that greatest ruler of the sky himself is brought on, without any awe for his name and majesty, playing the part of adulterers, and changing his face with deceit in order to seduce the chastity of other men's wives, and taking the place of husbands by the pretense of a counterfeit body.
Notes and citation
Summary: In the theaters, before the priests and magistrates, actors portray Venus as a harlot, the Great Mother in lust, Hercules in agony, and Jupiter as an adulterer.
- The Great Mother (Cybele) of Pessinus and Mount Dindymus loved the shepherd Attis. Sophocles, Women of Trachis. The edition deletes a repeated 'formidine'.
Extrabiblical texts: Sophocles, Trach. (Sophocles (plays and fragments); allusion)
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.35 (CSEL 4:169–170; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-35). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
4.36CSEL 4:170–171
nec satis haec culpa est. etiam mimis et scurrilibus ludicris sanctissimorum personae interponuntur deorum, et ut spectatoribus uacuis risus possit atque hilaritas excitari, iocularibus feriuntur cauillationibus numina: conclamant et adsurgunt theatra, caueae omnes concrepant fragoribus atque plausu, et quod nullis possit satisfactionibus expiari, exoletis atque inrisoribus numinum dona instituuntur et munera, ab officiis otium publicis, immunitas et uacatio cum coronis. et audetis post ista mirari unde oriantur haec mala quibus inundatur et premitur sine ulla intermissione mortalitas, cum omnis † res eas quibus sunt inuoluta probra numinum et maledictionis elogia et cotidie referatis et ediscatis cotidie, et si quando animum desidem otiosis uultis alucinationibus occupari, dies uobis poscatis dari et sine ullis intermissionibus exhiberi. quod si haberet uos aliqua uestris pro religionibus indignatio, has potius litteras uos exurere debuistis olim, libros istos demoliri, dissoluere theatra haec potius, in quibus infamiae numinum propudiosis cotidie publicantur in fabulis. nam nostra quidem scripta cur ignibus meruerunt dari? cur immaniter conuenticula dirui, in quibus summus oratur deus, pax cunctis et uenia postulatur magistratibus exercitibus regibus familiaribus inimicis, adhuc uitam degentibus et resolutis corporum uinctione, in quibus aliud auditur nihil nisi quod humanos faciat, nisi quod mites uerecundos pudicos castos, familiaris communicatores rei et cum omnibus uobis solidae germanitatis necessitudine copulatos.
Nor is this fault enough. The persons of the most holy gods are also brought into mimes and scurrilous farces, and so that laughter and merriment may be stirred in idle spectators, the deities are struck with joking jibes. The theaters shout and rise, all the tiers resound with crashes and applause; and, what could be expiated by no satisfaction, gifts and rewards are established for the debauched mockers of the deities, leisure from public duties, immunity, and exemption with crowns. And after this do you dare to wonder where these evils arise from, by which mortality is flooded and oppressed without any interruption, when every day you recite and every day learn by heart all those things in which the disgraces of the deities and the inscriptions of slander are wrapped up, and, whenever you want your idle mind to be occupied with leisurely delusions, you demand that days be given you and that they be performed without any interruption? But if you had any indignation for your religions, you ought long ago to have burned these writings instead, torn down those books, and destroyed these theaters instead, in which the infamies of the deities are published daily in shameless plays. For why have our writings deserved to be given to the flames? Why have our meeting places deserved to be savagely torn down, in which the supreme God is prayed to, and peace and pardon are asked for all, for magistrates, armies, kings, friends, enemies, both those still living and those released from the bonds of the body; in which nothing is heard but what makes people humane, gentle, modest, chaste, pure, sharing their property, and joined with all of you in the bond of firm brotherhood?
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
1 Tim 2:1–2 (allusion, medium confidence) · Matt 5:44 (allusion, medium confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: Pagans reward actors who mock the gods, yet burn Christian books and destroy churches where prayer is made for all, including rulers and enemies.
- The burning of Christian books and the destruction of meeting places point to the edict of the Great Persecution (303), which ordered both; this passage suggests that at least this part of the work was written at its beginning. Christian prayer for rulers and enemies recalls 1 Tim 2:1–2 and Matt 5:44. A word is corrupt ('† res').
Topics: Persecution, Prayer, Scripture and canon
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 4.36 (CSEL 4:170–171; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/4-17/#p-4-36). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.