Against the Nations 3.13–3.38
Latin text: CSEL 4 (Latin text: A. Reifferscheid (CSEL 4, 1875), digitized by Open Greek and Latin, University of Leipzig (csel-dev), CC BY-SA 4.0).English: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), public domain (CC0). Compare: Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 6 (1886).
Chapter 3
3.13CSEL 4:120–121
at uero uos deos parum est formarum quod amplectimini mensione, filo etiam terminatis humano, et quod indignius multo est, terrenorum corporum circumcaesura finitis. quid ergo dicemus? caput deos gestare tereti rotunditate colli erectum, retinaculis neruorum dorso inligatum ac pectori et ad ceruicum necessarias flexiones consertionibus uerticularum atque ossea substructione fulciri? quod si accipiemus ut uerum sit, aures etiam sequitur ut habeant curuis perterebratas anfractibus, oculorum orbiculos mobiles, superciliorum marginibus obumbratos, suspensum imbricem narium, munctionibus muculentis et spiritali commeabilem tractui, subactionibus ciborum dentes trini generis atque in officia trina compositos, manus ministras operum, articulatis digitis et cubitorum mobilitate tractabiles, corporibus sustinendis pedes, explicandis gressibus et suggerendis anticipationibus itionum genua. quodsi ea quae prompta sunt, consentaneum est et illa portari quae sub costis earumque sub cratibus cutes contegunt atque omentorum membranulae, gurguliones uentriculos lienes pulmones uesiculas iecora, intestinorum uolubilium tractus et per omnia uiscera commeantes purpurei sanguinis uenas cum arteriis spiritalibus coniugatas.
But for you it is not enough to embrace the gods in the measure of forms; you even bound them by the human outline and, what is much more unworthy, limit them by the contour of earthly bodies. What then shall we say? That the gods carry a head held up by the smooth roundness of a neck, tied to the back and chest by the ropes of sinews, and supported for the necessary bendings of the neck by joints of vertebrae and a bony framework? If we accept this as true, it follows that they also have ears bored through with curved windings; movable eyeballs shaded by the edges of the eyebrows; the hanging gutter of the nose, a passage for snotty wiping and for the drawing of breath; teeth of three kinds for chewing food, arranged for three tasks; hands to serve in work, easy to handle through jointed fingers and movable elbows; feet for supporting the body; knees for making strides and furnishing the forward movements of walking. And if they have what is visible, it is consistent that they also carry what the skins and the membranes of the omentum cover under the ribs and their framework: gullets, stomachs, spleens, lungs, bladders, livers, the coils of the winding intestines, and the veins of purple blood running through all the inward parts, joined with the breathing arteries.
Notes and citation
Summary: If the gods have human form, they must also have all the organs and entrails of the human body.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.13 (CSEL 4:120–121; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-13). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.14CSEL 4:121
an numquid caelestium corpora foeditatibus his carent, et quoniam cibis mortalibus abstinent, edentulos eos esse paruolum credendum est ritu et uiduatos interioribus cunctis tamquam utres sufflatos turgidorum corporum inanitate pendere? quid quod, si haec ita sunt, erit uobis necessarium contueri, similesne sint dii omnes an formarum dispari circumscriptione teneantur. si enim par cunctis atque una est omnibus similitudinis species, non absurdum est credere errare eos fallique cognitionis in mutuae comprehensione. sin autem gerunt discrimen in uultibus, sequitur ut intellegi debeat, non alia de causa dissimilitudines his datas, nisi ut singuli se possent differentium signorum proprietatibus noscitare. ergo esse dicendum est quosdam capitones cilunculos frontones labeones simos, alios mentones naeuios atque nasicas, hos displosis naribus, illos resimis, nonnullos turgentibus malis aut buccarum cumulatione ** acriuoces, nanos longos medios macilentos pingues crassos, hos capillorum intortionibus crispulos, caluitiis alios et glabritatibus rasos: neque opinari nos falso uestrae produnt atque indicant officinae, siquidem cum facitis atque informatis deos, hos crinitos effingitis, alios leues, senes iuuenes pueros aquilos caesios rauos seminudos intectos aut, ne frigus incommodet, fluidarum uestium superiectione perfusos.
Or are the bodies of the heavenly ones free from these foul things, and, since they abstain from mortal food, must we believe they are toothless like little children, and, bereft of all their inward parts, hang like blown-up bladders in the emptiness of swollen bodies? What of this, that if this is so, you will need to consider whether all the gods are alike or are held in unequal outlines of form. For if all have one equal kind of likeness, it is not absurd to believe that they go astray and are deceived in recognizing one another. But if they bear differences in their faces, it follows that it must be understood that these dissimilarities were given them for no other reason than that each might be recognized by the particular marks of different features. So it must be said that some are big-headed, with drooping eyelids, big-foreheaded, thick-lipped, snub-nosed; others long-chinned, with moles, and big-nosed; these with flaring nostrils, those with turned-up ones; some with swollen jaws, or puffed-out cheeks ..., sharp-voiced; dwarfs, tall, middling, lean, plump, stout; these curly with twisted hair, others shaved with baldness and hairlessness. Nor do we think this falsely: your workshops betray and show it, since when you make and form gods, you model some with long hair, others smooth, old, young, boys, dark, gray-eyed, tawny, half-naked, uncovered, or, so that the cold may not trouble them, covered with flowing garments thrown over them.
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
Notes and citation
Summary: If the gods have human shape, they must differ in features, and the sculptors' workshops show them as young, old, bald, or clothed.
- A gap is marked in the edition before 'sharp-voiced'. Several descriptive words are rare; the English equivalents are approximate. A stray period after 'non' in the digital text is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray period in the digital text): non. alia de causa → non alia de causa.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.14 (CSEL 4:121; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-14). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.15CSEL 4:121–122
quisquamne est hominum rationis alicuius sapore contactus, qui pilos et lanugines credat in deorum corporibus nasci, qui annorum in illis inesse discrimina, qui et per uarias tegminum atque amictuum formas uestitos hos ire atque ab aestibus sese frigoribusque tutari? quod qui habet uerum, et hoc necesse est tamquam uerum accipiat: esse deos fullones, esse tonsores, qui uel sacras eluant uestes uel capillos imminuant siluescentium crinium uelleribus inuolutis. itane istud non turpe, non impietatis et contumeliae plenum est, moribundi et caduci animantis liniamenta diis dare, insignire his partibus, quas enumerare, quas persequi probus audeat nemo nec sine summae foeditatis horrore mentis imaginatione concipere? hocine est illud fastidium uestrum, sapientia haec adrogans, qua despuitis nos ut rudes atque omnem scientiam remini rerum uobis diuinarum patere? Aegyptiorum ridetis aenigmata, quod mutorum animantium formas diuinis inseruerint causis easdemque quod species multo ture accipiant et reliquo caerimoniarum paratu: uos effigies hominum tamquam deorum ueneramini potestates nec pudet his ora terreni animalis imponere, erroris alios et stultitiae condemnare et in erroris eiusdem similitudine ac uitii deprehendi.
Is there any human being touched by a taste of any reason, who would believe that hair and down grow on the bodies of the gods, that differences of age exist among them, that they go about clothed in various kinds of coverings and garments and protect themselves from heat and cold? Whoever holds this as true must also accept this as true: that there are fuller gods and barber gods, to wash the sacred garments or to trim the hair when it has grown into a forest of tangled locks. Is this not shameful, full of impiety and insult, to give the gods the features of a dying and perishable creature, to mark them with parts which no decent person would dare to enumerate or describe, or conceive in his mind's imagination without horror at their extreme foulness? Is this that fastidiousness of yours, this arrogant wisdom, with which you spit on us as uncultured and think that all knowledge of divine things lies open to you? You laugh at the riddles of the Egyptians, because they joined the forms of dumb animals to their divine causes and receive the same images with much incense and the rest of the equipment of ceremonies; you venerate human effigies as the powers of gods, and are not ashamed to put on them the faces of an earthly animal, to condemn others for error and folly, and to be caught in the likeness of the same error and fault.
Notes and citation
Summary: Giving the gods human bodies with hair, age, and clothing is as absurd as the Egyptians' animal gods, whom the pagans mock.
- Several stray periods in the digital text are removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray period in the digital text): uarias. tegminum → uarias tegminum; uerum., et → uerum, et; non. turpe → non turpe.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.15 (CSEL 4:121–122; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-15). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.16CSEL 4:122–123
nisi forte dicetis alias quidem inesse diis formas, sed honoris et dicis causa species uos eis accommodauisse mortalium: quod maioris multo est contumeliae, quam erroris aliquid ignoratione fecisse. nam si uos fateremini id quod uestra suspicio credidisset formamentis adtribuisse diuinis, minus erat iniuriae praesumpta in opinatione peccasse: nunc uero cum aliud creditis et aliud fingitis, et in eos estis contumeliosi quibus id adtribuitis quod eis confitemini non esse, et inreligiosi esse monstramini, cum id adoratis quod fingitis, non quod in re esse ipsaque in ueritate censetis. si aselluli canes porci humanum aliquid saperent fingendique haberent artes idemque nos uellent cultu aliquo prosequi et statuarum consecrationibus honorare, quantas nobis irarum flammas, indignationum quos turbines concitarent, si suorum corporum formas nostra uellent portare atque obtinere simulacra? quantas, inquam, irarum flammas suffunderent, excitarent, si urbis conditor Romulus asinina staret in facie, si sanctus Pompilius in canina, si porcina sub specie nomen esset Catonis aut Marci Ciceronis inscriptum? ita ergo stoliditatem uestram non rideri, si rident, uestris ab numinibus remini, aut quoniam censetis adfici eos ira, non insanire, non furere neque pro iniuriis et contumeliis tantis ultum ire, se uelle iacularique in uos ea quae dolor suetus est iacere et offensionis acerbitas comminisci? quanto fuerat rectius elephantorum his formas, pantherarum aut tigridum, taurorum equorumque donare? nam quid in homine pulcrum est, quid, quaeso, admirabile uel decorum, nisi quod et clurino cum pecore nescio quis auctor uoluit esse commune?
Unless perhaps you will say that the gods have other forms, but that you have given them the appearance of mortals for the sake of honor and for form's sake: which is a much greater insult than to have done something in error through ignorance. For if you confessed that you had given the divine forms what your conjecture had believed, the wrong of sinning in a preconceived opinion would be less. But now, since you believe one thing and fashion another, you are both insulting to those to whom you give what you confess they do not have, and shown to be irreligious, since you adore what you fashion, not what you judge to be so in fact and truth. If asses, dogs, and pigs had some human understanding and arts of fashioning, and wanted to honor us with some worship and consecrations of statues, what flames of anger, what whirlwinds of indignation would they stir in us, if they wanted our images to bear and keep the forms of their bodies? What flames of anger, I say, would they pour out and stir up, if Romulus the founder of the city stood with the face of an ass, holy Pompilius with that of a dog, or if the name of Cato or of Marcus Cicero were inscribed under the likeness of a pig? Do you then think that your stupidity is not laughed at by your deities, if they laugh; or, since you believe they are affected by anger, that they do not rage, do not go mad, do not want to go to avenge such great wrongs and insults, and hurl at you what pain usually hurls and the bitterness of offense devises? How much more right it would have been to give them the forms of elephants, panthers, or tigers, of bulls and horses! For what is beautiful in man, what, I ask, admirable or seemly, except what some author willed to be shared even with the ape-like herd?
Notes and citation
Summary: If the pagans shape the gods in human form merely for honor, they insult them, as men would be insulted by statues of themselves with animal faces.
- 'clurinum pecus' means apes; Arnobius's point is that the human form is shared with apes. A stray period after 'flammas' in the digital text is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray period in the digital text): flammas. suffunderent → flammas suffunderent.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.16 (CSEL 4:122–123; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-16). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.17CSEL 4:123–124
sed si uobis, inquiunt, nostra opinatio displicet, uos demonstrate, uos dicite, qua sit deus praeditus forma. si ueram uultis audire sententiam: aut nullam habet deus formam, aut si informatus est aliqua, ea quae sit profecto nescimus. neque enim quod uidimus numquam nescire esse ducimus turpe aut ea re prohibemur aliorum sententias refutare, quia super hoc nostram nullam ipsi sententiam promimus. ut enim, si uitreus esse dicatur mundus, si argenteus, ferreus uel ex fragili conglobatus et fabricatus testa, non dubitemus falsum esse contendere, quamuis quae sit eius materia nesciamus, ita cum de specie agatur dei, quam perhibetis conuincimus non esse, etiamsi quae sit minus possumus explicare.
'But if our opinion displeases you,' they say, 'you show us, you tell us, with what form God is endowed.' If you want to hear the true opinion: either God has no form, or, if he is formed in some way, we certainly do not know what it is. For we do not think it shameful not to know what we have never seen, nor are we prevented from refuting the opinions of others because we ourselves put forward no opinion on this matter. For just as, if the world were said to be of glass, or of silver, or of iron, or rolled up and fashioned out of brittle earthenware, we would not hesitate to maintain that this is false, though we do not know what its material is: so, when God's appearance is in question, we prove that it is not what you declare, even if we are less able to explain what it is.
Notes and citation
Summary: Christians do not know God's form, if he has one, but can still show that the pagan conception of it is false.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.17 (CSEL 4:123–124; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-17). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.18CSEL 4:124
quid ergo, inquiet aliquis, non audit deus, non loquitur, non ante se positas res uidet, non intuetur? suo forsitan genere, non nostro. neque enim ueri aliquid scire tanta in re possumus aut suspicionibus indagare, quas esse apud nos liquet instabiles, lubricas et uanorum similitudines somniorum. si enim dixerimus isdem illum rationibus uidere quibus et nos uidemus, sequitur ut intellegi debeat, superiectas pupulis eum habere membranulas, coniuere, nictare, radiis aut imaginibus cernere, aut quod oculis commune est omnibus, sine alterius luminis commixtione nihil omnino conspicere. quod ipsum similiter de auditu ac de eloquii forma et uerborum prolatione dicendum est: si per aures audiat, eas quoque habere flexuosis tramitibus perforatas, qua inrepere uox possit sensum nuntiatura sermonis, aut si uerba ore funduntur, labia habere cum dentibus, quorum inflictu et mobilitate multiiuga lingua sonos articulet et uocem in uerba conformet.
'What then,' someone will say, 'does God not hear, not speak, not see and behold the things set before him?' Perhaps in his own way, not in ours. For in so great a matter we can know nothing true, nor trace it out by guesses, which it is clear are unstable, slippery, and like empty dreams with us. For if we say that he sees in the same way as we see, it follows that it must be understood that he has membranes laid over his pupils, closes his eyes, blinks, sees by rays or images, or, what is common to all eyes, sees nothing at all without the addition of another light. The same must likewise be said of hearing and of the manner of speech and the uttering of words: if he hears through ears, he must also have them bored through with winding passages, through which the voice can creep in to announce the sense of speech; or if words are poured from his mouth, he must have lips with teeth, by whose striking and many-sided movement the tongue shapes sounds and forms the voice into words.
Notes and citation
Summary: If God sees, hears, and speaks, he does so in his own way, not with human organs.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.18 (CSEL 4:124; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-18). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.19CSEL 4:124–125
at si nostri animi mentem non recusatis audire, tantum abest, ut nos deo corporalia liniamenta tribuamus, ut animorum etiam decora ipsasque uirtutes, quibus eminere uix concessum est paucis, tantae rei uereamur adscribere. quis enim deum dixerit fortem constantem frugi sapientem? quis probum, quis sobrium, quis immo aliquid nosse, quis intellegere, quis prouidere, quis ad fines officiorum certos actionum suarum decreta dirigentem? humana sunt haec bona et ex oppositione uitiorum existimationem meruerunt habere laudabilem. quis est autem tam optusi pectoris, tam bruti, qui humanis bonis deum esse dicat magnum aut ideo nominis maiestate praecellere quod uitiorum careat foeditate? quicquid de deo dixeris, quicquid tacitae mentis cogitatione conceperis, in humanum transilit et corrumpitur sensum, nec habet propriae significationis notam quod, nostris dicitur uerbis atque ad negotia humana compositis. unus est hominis intellectus de dei natura certissimus, si scias et sentias nihil de illo posse mortali oratione depromi.
But if you do not refuse to hear the mind of our soul, so far are we from ascribing bodily features to God that we fear to ascribe even the graces of minds and the virtues themselves, in which hardly a few are granted to excel, to so great a being. For who would call God brave, steadfast, temperate, wise? Who would call him upright, who sober, who indeed would say that he knows anything, understands, foresees, or directs the decisions of his actions to the fixed ends of duties? These are human goods, and they have earned their praiseworthy reputation from their opposition to vices. And who is so dull-hearted, so brutish, as to say that God is great by human goods, or that he excels in the majesty of his name because he is free from the ugliness of vices? Whatever you say of God, whatever you conceive in the silent thought of your mind, passes over into a human sense and is corrupted; and what is said in our words, which are framed for human affairs, does not have the mark of its own meaning. The one most certain understanding a human being has of the nature of God is to know and feel that nothing can be expressed about him in mortal speech.
Notes and citation
Summary: Even human virtues cannot properly be attributed to God; the surest knowledge of God is that he cannot be expressed in human words.
- A strong statement of apophatic (negative) theology.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.19 (CSEL 4:124–125; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-19). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.20CSEL 4:125
et haec uero prima est uestrorum numinum contumelia, quam de formis et sexibus boni scilicet uindices et religiosi constituistis auctores. illud uero quod sequitur quale est, quod deos nobis inducitis alios fabros, alios medicos, alios lanarios nautas citharistas auloedos uenatores pastores et, quod supererat, rusticos? ille, inquit, musicus deus est, et hic alter diuinus est. ceteri enim dii non sunt musici et uentura praedicere inscitia nesciunt atque ignorantia futurorum. obstetriciis ille informatus artibus, medicorum alius institutus est disciplinis. ergone singuli sua in re pollent nec in auxilium uocati alienis possunt in partibus subuenire? hic in sermone facundus est atque in uerborum continuationibus promptus: bardi enim sunt alii nec possunt aliquid scitum, si oratio facienda est, eloqui.
And this indeed is the first insult to your deities, which you, good defenders and religious authorities that you are, have established about forms and sexes. But what of what follows, that you present to us gods of whom some are smiths, others physicians, others wool-workers, sailors, lyre-players, flute-singers, hunters, shepherds, and, what was left over, farmers? 'That one,' he says, 'is a musical god, and this other is a prophet.' For the other gods are not musicians, and do not know how to foretell the future through lack of skill and ignorance of what is to come. That one is trained in the arts of midwifery, another has been instructed in the disciplines of physicians. Is each strong only in his own field, and when called for help can they give no aid in other areas? This one is eloquent in speech and ready in the flow of words: for the others are slow and can say nothing clever if a speech must be made.
Notes and citation
Summary: Arnobius mocks the assignment of particular crafts and skills to particular gods.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.20 (CSEL 4:125; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-20). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.21CSEL 4:125–126
et rogo: quae ratio est, quae tam dura necessitas, quae causa, ut artificia haec superi tamquam uiles nouerint atque habeant sellularii? in caelo enim cantatur et psallitur: ut interualla et numeros uocum nouem conserant scitule ac modulentur sorores. sunt in sidereis motibus siluae, sunt lustra, sunt nemora: ut uenationum praepotens habeatur in expeditionibus Diana. inminentia dii nesciunt et sortibus uiuunt agitanturque fatalibus: ut quid cuique crastinus dies ferat aut hora, Latonius explicet atque aperiat uates. ipse alio impletur deo et ui numinis premitur exagitaturque maioris: ut merito dicatur habeaturque diuinus. corripiuntur dii morbis et uulnerari, uexari aliqua ex re possunt: ut cum exegerit ratio, auxiliator subueniat Epidaurius. parturiunt, pariunt: ut difficiles puerperiorum tricas Iuno mulceat corripiatque Lucina. rem rusticam tractant aut curant militaria munera: ut flammis potens Vulcanus fabricetur his enses aut ruris ferramenta procudat. uestis indigent tegmine: ut uirgo Tritonia curiose eis stamen neat et qualitate pro temporis aut trilices tunicas aut de serico componat. accusant et diluunt crimina: ut Atlantea progenies eloquii primas ferat studiosa exercitatione quaesiti set erras, inquit, et falleris;
And I ask: what reason is there, what harsh necessity, what cause, that the gods above should know and practice these crafts like mean artisans? Is there singing and lyre-playing in heaven, so that the nine sisters may skillfully join and modulate the intervals and rhythms of voices? Are there forests, wild haunts, and groves among the motions of the stars, so that Diana may be held mighty in the hunt in her expeditions? Do the gods not know what is coming, and live and are they driven by lots and fates, so that the prophet son of Latona may explain and reveal what tomorrow or the hour will bring to each? Is he himself filled by another god and pressed and driven by the power of a greater deity, so that he may rightly be called and held a prophet? Are the gods seized by diseases, and can they be wounded and troubled by something, so that, when need demands, the helper of Epidaurus may come to their aid? Do they go into labor and give birth, so that Juno Lucina may soothe and cut short the difficult troubles of childbirth? Do they practice farming or attend to military duties, so that Vulcan, mighty in flames, may forge swords for them or hammer out tools for the country? Do they need the covering of clothing, so that the Tritonian maiden may carefully spin thread for them and, according to the season, make them tunics of triple twill or of silk? Do they accuse and refute charges, so that the offspring of Atlas may win the first prize of eloquence, sought by diligent practice? 'But you are wrong,' he says, 'and deceived.'
Notes and citation
Summary: Arnobius asks why gods would need music, hunting, prophecy, medicine, midwifery, smithing, weaving, or oratory for themselves.
- The nine sisters are the Muses; the son of Latona is Apollo; the helper of Epidaurus is Aesculapius; the Tritonian maiden is Minerva; the offspring of Atlas is Mercury (son of Maia, daughter of Atlas). The last sentence begins the objection answered in 3.22.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.21 (CSEL 4:125–126; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-21). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.22CSEL 4:126
non enim ipsi opifices dii sunt, sed ingeniis hominum subiciunt has artes atque, ut uita sit instructior, tradunt scienda mortalibus. sed qui aliquam subicit ignaro ac nescio disciplinam, sollertem quem is efficere nonnullius operis scientia contendit, sciat ipse necesse est primus id quod alterum callere constituit. neque enim traditor alicuius esse scientiae potis est, ut non eius quod tradit praecepta habeat cognita et rationem teneat exercitatissime comprehensam. dii ergo sunt artifices primi, siue quod, ipsi ut dicitis, subdunt scientiam mentibus, siue quod immortales et geniti numquam genus omne terrenum uetustate temporis antecedunt. hoc est ergo quod quaeritur, cum sit nullus apud superos artibus his locus neque usus, illorum neque natura deposcat ingeniosum aliquid aut sellularium scire: cur esse dicatis in aliis alios perceptionibus gnarures et habere sollertias, in quibus singuli se uincant scientiarum cognitione discreti?
'For the gods are not craftsmen themselves, but they instill these arts into the minds of men and hand them down to mortals to be learned, so that life may be better equipped.' But whoever instills some discipline in one who is unskilled and ignorant, and strives to make him skillful in the knowledge of some work, must himself first know what he has determined the other should master. For no one can be the teacher of any knowledge without having learned the precepts of what he teaches and holding its method understood with the utmost practice. So the gods are the first craftsmen, either because, as you say, they themselves instill knowledge into minds, or because, being immortal and never born, they precede the whole earthly race in length of time. This, then, is the question: since there is no place or use for these arts among the gods above, and their nature does not require them to know anything ingenious or belonging to artisans, why do you say that some are skilled in some accomplishments and others in others, and have skills in which each surpasses the others, distinguished by knowledge of different sciences?
Notes and citation
Summary: If the gods teach the arts, they must first know them, which returns to the absurdity of gods practicing crafts they do not need.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.22 (CSEL 4:126; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-22). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.23CSEL 4:126–128
nisi forte hoc dicitis, deos artifices non esse, sed eos his artibus praesidere, curare, immo sub illorum posita esse tutela omnia quae administramus, quae gerimus, atque ut bene ac feliciter cedant, illorum prouisione curari. quod quidem merito dici ac probabiliter uideretur, si ad uoluntatem semper sententiamque procederent ea quae obimus, quae gerimus aut in negotiis periclitamur humanis. cum uero in contrarium cotidie res uertantur neque ad propositum uoluntatis actionum respondeant fines, ludentis est dicere, deos nobis superesse custodes, quos suspicio finxit nostra, non explorata ueritas comprehendit. per maria Mater Matuta tutissimas praestat commeantibus nauigationes: et cur insanum mare tam frequentes exposcit crudelium naufragiorum ruinas? salutaria et fida consilia nostris suggerit cogitationibus Consus: et in contrarios exitus cur adsidue uertitur placitorum inopinata mutatio? armentorum et pecorum gregibus Pales praesunt Inuusque custodes: et cur saeua contagia et pestilentes morbos ab aestiuis auertere cessatione inimica non curant? Flora illa genetrix et sancta obscenitate ludorum bene curat ut arua florescant: et cur cottidie gemmulas et pubescentes herbas adurit atque interficit nocentissimum frigus? puerperiis Iuno praeposita est et auxiliatur genetricibus fetis: et matrum intereunt cur cotidie millia parricidalibus nixibus interemptae? in tutela Vulcani est ignis et materies eius in illius regimine constituta est: et cur aedes frequentissime sacras atque urbium portiones ad cinerem patitur flammarum uoracitate conlabi? diuinationis scientiam largitur hariolantibus Pythius: et cur obliquata, dubia, cur obscuritatis submersa caligine dat saepius subministratque responsa? Aesculapius officiis et medendi artibus praeest: et cur plura morborum et ualetudinum genera ad sanitatem nequeunt incolumitatemque perduci, immo sub ipsis fiunt curantium manibus atrociora? curat Mercurius ceromas, pugillatibus et luctationibus praeest: et cur inuictos omnes non perficit quibus praeest, cur unius in officio praesidatus hos uictoriae compotes, alios uero perpetitur ignominiosa infirmitate rideri?
Unless perhaps you say that the gods are not craftsmen, but preside over and care for these arts; indeed that all that we manage and do is placed under their guardianship, and is cared for by their providence so that it may turn out well and happily. This would seem to be rightly and plausibly said if what we undertake, do, or risk in human affairs always went according to our will and intention. But since things turn out the opposite every day, and the ends of our actions do not answer to the purpose of our will, it is mere play to say that the gods are our guardians, whom our guesswork has invented and no ascertained truth has grasped. Mater Matuta provides the safest voyages for those who sail the seas: then why does the raging sea demand the ruin of so many cruel shipwrecks? Consus suggests wholesome and trustworthy counsels to our thoughts: then why does an unexpected change of plans constantly turn them to contrary outcomes? Pales and Inuus are guardians presiding over herds of cattle and flocks: then why, with hostile idleness, do they not take care to turn cruel contagions and pestilent diseases away from the summer pastures? Flora the mother, with the holy obscenity of her games, takes good care that the fields flower: then why does most harmful frost daily scorch and kill the little buds and growing grasses? Juno is set over childbirth and helps mothers in labor: then why do thousands of mothers perish every day, killed by deadly labor? Fire is under Vulcan's guardianship and its matter is placed under his rule: then why does he allow sacred temples and parts of cities to collapse into ashes so often by the greed of flames? The Pythian gives the knowledge of divination to soothsayers: then why does he more often give and supply oblique, doubtful answers, sunk in the fog of obscurity? Aesculapius presides over the offices and arts of healing: then why can many kinds of diseases and illnesses not be brought to health and soundness, and indeed become worse under the very hands of those who treat them? Mercury cares for the wrestling-grounds and presides over boxing and wrestling: then why does he not make all those over whom he presides invincible? Why, in the office of a single presidency, does he let some win victory and others be laughed at for shameful weakness?
Notes and citation
Summary: If gods preside over seafaring, farming, childbirth, healing, and athletics, why do those enterprises so often fail?
- Mater Matuta was a Roman goddess of the dawn and of harbors; Consus a god of counsel and stored grain; Pales and Inuus gods of flocks; Flora a goddess of flowering, whose games were notoriously indecent.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.23 (CSEL 4:126–128; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-23). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.24CSEL 4:128
tutelatoribus, inquit, supplicat diis nemo, et idcirco singuli familiaribus officiis atque auxiliis desunt. nisi enim tura et salsas accipiant fruges, benefacere dii nequeunt, et nisi pecorum sanguine delibutas suas conspexerint arulas, suos deserunt atque abiciunt praesidatus? atquin ego rebar paulo ante, spontaneas esse numinum benignitates ultroque ab his fluere inexpectata beniuolentiae munera. numquid enim rex poli libamine aliquo exambitur aut hostia, ut omnia ista quibus uiuitur commoda mortalium gentibus largiatur? non feruorem genitalem solis deus, noctis et tempora, uentos pluuias fruges cunctis subministrat aequaliter bonis malis iniustis iustis ingenuis seruis pauperibus diuitibus? hoc est enim proprium dei potentis ac ueri, inexorata beneficia praebere fessis atque inualidis rebus et multiformi semper asperitate uallatis. nam sacrificiis editis id quod poscaris adnuere, non est istud postulantibus subuenire sed benignitatis propriae munificentiam uenditare. ludimus et lasciuimus tanta in re homines, et qui sit deus obliti, quid istius magnificentia nominis, quicquid uile uel sordidum suspiciosa potuimus credulitate confingere diuis tutelaribus adrogamus.
'No one prays to the guardian gods,' he says, 'and so they each fail in their proper duties and help.' So unless they receive incense and salted meal, the gods cannot do good, and unless they see their little altars smeared with the blood of cattle, they desert and abandon their charges? Yet I thought a little while ago that the kindnesses of the deities were spontaneous, and that the unexpected gifts of their goodwill flowed from them of their own accord. For is the King of the heavens courted by any libation or victim to lavish on the nations of mortals all the benefits by which we live? Does God not supply the life-giving heat of the sun, the times of night, winds, rains, and crops equally to all, good and bad, unjust and just, free and slave, poor and rich? For this is the mark of the powerful and true God: to give unasked benefits to things weary, weak, and always surrounded by manifold harshness. For to grant what you are asked for when sacrifices have been offered is not to help petitioners but to sell the bounty of one's own kindness. We human beings play and frolic in so great a matter, and, forgetting what God is and what the magnificence of this name is, we attribute to the guardian gods whatever mean or sordid thing we have been able to invent with suspicious credulity.
Matt 5:45 (allusion, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: Gods who help only when paid with sacrifices are selling favors; the true God gives his benefits freely to all, good and bad alike.
- God giving sun and rain to good and bad alike recalls Matt 5:45.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.24 (CSEL 4:128; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-24). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.25CSEL 4:128–129
unctionibus, inquit, superest Vnxia, cingulorum Cinxia replicationi, Victa et Potua sanctissimae uictui potuique procurant. o egregia numinum et singularis interpretatio potestatum: nisi postes uirorum adipali unguine oblinerentur ab sponsis, nisi uirginalia uincula iam feruentes dissoluerent atque imminentes mariti, nisi potarent et manderent homines, di nomina non haberent? quid, quod non contenti tam deformibus subdidisse atque inplicuisse deos curis, naturas his etiam feras truculentas immanes, malis gaudentes semper et humani generis adtribuitis uastitate.
'Unxia,' he says, 'presides over anointings, Cinxia over the untying of girdles, and the most holy Victa and Potua attend to eating and drinking.' O excellent and remarkable interpretation of the powers of the deities! Unless the doorposts of husbands were smeared with the fat of ointment by brides, unless husbands, already burning and pressing on, loosed the maidens' girdles, unless people drank and ate, would the gods have no names? What of this, that, not content with having subjected and entangled the gods in such ugly cares, you also attribute to them wild, fierce, savage natures, always rejoicing in evils and in the destruction of the human race?
Notes and citation
Summary: Arnobius ridicules minor deities assigned to wedding rites and to eating and drinking, and the savage natures ascribed to some gods.
- Roman brides anointed the doorposts of the husband's house on entering. 'pofetes' in the digital text is corrected to 'postes' ('doorposts').
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (misread letter in the digital text): pofetes → postes.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.25 (CSEL 4:128–129; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-25). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.26CSEL 4:129
non commemorabimus hoc loco deam Lauernam furum, Bellonas Discordias Furias et laeua illa quae constituitis numina taciturnitatis silentio praeteribimus. Martem ipsum ponemus in medio et speciosam illam Cupidinum matrem, ex quibus unum praeficitis proeliis, amoribus alteram et cupiditatis ardori. potestatem, inquit, bellorum Mars habet. utrumne ut mota compescat an ut cessantia et quieta commoueat? nam si sedator militaris insaniae est, cur cotidie bella non desunt? sin autem conditor illorum est, deum ergo dicemus in uoluptatis suae dulcedinem collidere orbem totum, discordiarum et discriminum causas inter gentes serere terrarum longinquitate diiunctas, conducere ex diuerso tot mortalium milia et intra uerbi unius moras campos cadaueribus aggerare, sanguineos praecipitare torrentes, fundatissima delere imperia, aequare urbes solo, libertatem ingenuis abrogare et seruitutis condicionem imponere, dissensionibus gaudere ciuilibus, commorientium fratrum parricida nece et ad ultimum filiorum et patrum parricidali congressionis horrore.
We will not mention here the goddess Laverna of thieves, the Bellonas, Discords, and Furies, and we will pass over in silence those ill-omened deities you establish. We will set Mars himself in the middle, and that beautiful mother of the Cupids, of whom you set the one over battles, the other over loves and the heat of desire. 'Mars,' he says, 'has power over wars.' Is it to calm them when stirred, or to stir them when quiet and at rest? For if he is the calmer of military madness, why are wars never lacking every day? But if he is their founder, then we shall say that a god, for the sweetness of his pleasure, dashes the whole world together, sows the causes of discords and dangers among nations separated by the great distance of lands, brings together so many thousands of mortals from opposite sides, and within the space of a single word heaps the fields with corpses, sends torrents of blood rushing, destroys the best-founded empires, levels cities to the ground, takes freedom from the free-born and imposes the condition of slavery, rejoices in civil strife, in the murderous death of brothers who die together, and finally in the horror of parricidal combat between sons and fathers.
Notes and citation
Summary: If Mars governs wars, either he fails to stop them or he delights in all the slaughter and ruin they bring.
- Laverna was the Roman goddess of thieves. A stray mark in the digital text and 'impdnere' for 'imponere' are corrected.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (misread letter in the digital text; stray hyphen in the digital text): praeteribimus.- → praeteribimus.; impdnere → imponere.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.26 (CSEL 4:129; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-26). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.27CSEL 4:129–130
quod ipsum licebit in Venerem pari atque eadem ratione traducere. nam si amoris haec flammas, sicut perhibetis et creditis, cogitationibus subdit humanis, sequitur ut intellegi debeat, quicquid labis et criminis ab insania proficiscitur tali, Veneriis debere uulneribus imputari. ergone dea cogente in uilissimi nominis scorta suam saepius produnt etiam nobiles dignitatem, dissuuntur tenacium matrimoniorum nexus, in incestas libidines necessitudo sanguinis inardescit, insaniunt in liberos matres, patres uirginum suarum uota in se uertunt, contra decus aetatis senes in obscenos ingemunt curis iuuenalibus adpetitus, sapientes et fortes uiri soluunt decreta constantiae uirilitatis uigore mollito, innectuntur ceruicibus laquei, conscenduntur ardentes rogi et per uastas atque altissimas rupes iaciunt se passim uoluntariis saltibus praecipitati?
The same can be transferred to Venus on the same principle. For if she instills the flames of love into human thoughts, as you declare and believe, it follows that it must be understood that whatever disgrace and crime proceeds from such madness must be charged to the wounds of Venus. Is it by the compulsion of the goddess, then, that even nobles often betray their dignity for harlots of the vilest name, that the bonds of firm marriages are unstitched, that the ties of blood burn into incestuous lusts, that mothers go mad for their sons, that fathers turn their daughters' desires toward themselves, that old men, against the dignity of their age, groan with youthful passions for obscene cravings, that wise and brave men dissolve the resolutions of constancy as the vigor of their manhood is softened, that nooses are tied around necks, that burning pyres are mounted, and that people throw themselves headlong everywhere from vast and very high cliffs in voluntary leaps?
Notes and citation
Summary: If Venus inspires love, she is responsible for adultery, incest, and the suicides of desperate lovers.
- The digital text repeats 'imputari'; the repetition is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (repeated word in the digital text): imputari imputari → imputari.
Topics: Ethics
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.27 (CSEL 4:129–130; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-27). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.28CSEL 4:130
quisquamne est hominum rationis alicuius primordiis indutus, qui diuinitatis substantiam tam foedis polluat aut contaminet moribus? qui naturas attribuat diis tales, quas in agrestibus beluis lenitudo saepe permulsit atque extenuauit humana? ubinam, quaeso, est illud, quod ab omni perturbationis adfectu dii procul amoti sunt, quod lenes placidi mites, quod in genere uirtutis unito perfectionis apicem atque ipsius retinent sapientiae summitatem? aut cur eos oramus, ut a nobis aduersa atque inimica propellant, si malorum omnium quibus cotidie carpimur ipsi esse nobis reperiuntur auctores? quantumlibet nos impios, inreligiosos uocetis aut atheos, numquam fidem facietis esse amorum deos, esse bellorum, esse qui discordias conserant, qui furialibus stimulis animos inquietent. aut enim uerissime dii sunt, et ea quae commemorastis non faciunt: aut si faciunt ea quae dicitis, sine ulla dubitatione dii non sunt.
Is there any human being endowed with the first beginnings of reason who would pollute or defile the substance of divinity with such foul characters? Who would attribute to the gods such natures as human gentleness has often soothed and softened even in wild beasts? Where, I ask, is that teaching, that the gods are far removed from every feeling of disturbance, that they are gentle, peaceful, mild, that in a united kind of virtue they hold the peak of perfection and the summit of wisdom itself? Or why do we pray to them to drive away from us adverse and hostile things, if they themselves are found to be the authors of all the evils by which we are torn every day? However much you call us impious, irreligious, or atheists, you will never convince us that there are gods of loves, gods of wars, gods who sow discords and disturb minds with furious goads. For either they are most truly gods and do not do the things you have mentioned, or, if they do what you say, they are without any doubt not gods.
Notes and citation
Summary: Gods who stir up love, war, and discord cannot be the tranquil, perfect beings philosophy describes; either they do not do these things or they are not gods.
- A stray period after 'ubinam' in the digital text is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray period in the digital text): ubinam,. quaeso → ubinam, quaeso.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.28 (CSEL 4:130; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-28). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.29CSEL 4:130–132
et tamen possemus utcumque accipere a uobis has † mentes impiarum plenissimas fictionum, si non multa de diis ipsi tam contraria promentes dissoluentiaque se ipsa sustinere animi compelleretis adsensum. cum enim singuli singulos anteire interioris contenditis scientiae laude, et deos ipsos quos opinamini tollitis et reponitis alios quos manifestum est non esse, et alios alii deos in eisdem dicitis rebus, et innumeros esse conscribitis quos esse singulos semper consensio accepit humana. incipiamus ergo sollemniter ab Iano et nos patre, quem quidam ex nobis mundum, annum alii, solem esse prodidere nonnulli. quod si accipiemus ut uerum sit, sequitur ut intellegi debeat nullum umquam fuisse Ianum, quem ferunt Caelo atque Hecata procreatum in Italia regnasse primum, Ianiculi oppidi conditorem, patrem Fonti, Vulturni generum, Iuturnae maritum, atque ita per uos dei nomen eraditur, quem in cunctis anteponitis precibus et uiam uobis pandere deorum ad audientiam creditis. rursus uero si Ianus est annus, deus esse nec sic potest. quis enim annum ignorat temporis esse circumscriptionem statam nec habere uim numinis id quod spatiis mensum et dierum dinumeratione conclusum est? quod ipsum licebit in Saturnum non absimili ratione traducere. nam si tempus significatur hoc nomine, Graecorum ut interpretes autumant, ut quod χρόνος est habeatur Κρόνος, nullum est Saturnium numen. quis est enim tam demens, qui tempus esse dicat deum, quod mensura cuiusdam est spatii in continua serie perpetuitatis inclusi? atque ita ex ordine tolletur et iste caelestium, quem Caelo esse editum patre, magnorum esse procreatorem deorum, uitisatorem falciferum uetustas edidit prisca et minorum transmisit aetati.
And yet we might somehow accept from you these ... full of impious fictions, if you did not yourselves put forward many things about the gods so contradictory and self-destroying that you compel the assent of the mind to endure them. For while each of you strives to surpass the others in the praise of deeper knowledge, you both take away the very gods you believe in and put others in their place who plainly do not exist; you name different gods for the same things; and you write that there are countless ones where human agreement has always accepted single ones. Let us begin, then, in due form, we too, with Father Janus, whom some of you have declared to be the world, others the year, some the sun. If we accept this as true, it follows that it must be understood that there never was any Janus, who, they say, was begotten of Caelus and Hecate, reigned first in Italy, founded the town of Janiculum, was father of Fons, son-in-law of Vulturnus, husband of Juturna; and so by you the name of the god is erased whom you put first in all your prayers and believe opens for you the way to the hearing of the gods. Again, if Janus is the year, even so he cannot be a god. For who does not know that the year is a fixed limit of time, and that what is enclosed by spaces of months and a count of days has no divine power? The same can be transferred to Saturn on a similar principle. For if time is signified by this name, as the interpreters of the Greeks maintain, so that Kronos is taken to be chronos (time), there is no Saturnian deity. For who is so mad as to say that time is a god, when it is the measure of a certain space enclosed in the continuous series of everlastingness? And so this one too of the heavenly beings will be removed from the order, whom ancient antiquity declared to be born of Father Caelus, the begetter of the great gods, the planter of the vine, the bearer of the sickle, and handed down to a younger age.
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
Notes and citation
Summary: Allegorical interpretations that make Janus the world or year and Saturn time abolish the very gods of myth and worship.
- The equation of Kronos with chronos ('time') was a common Stoic etymology (e.g. Cicero, Nat. d. 2.64). A word is corrupt at the start ('† mentes'). Two stray periods in the digital text are removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray period in the digital text): sollemniter. ab Iano → sollemniter ab Iano; uiam. uobis → uiam uobis.
Extrabiblical texts: Cicero, Nat. d. 2.64 (Cicero; allusion)
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.29 (CSEL 4:130–132; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-29). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.30CSEL 4:132
nam quid de ipso dicemus Ioue, quem solem esse dictitauere sapientes, agitantem pinnatos currus turba consequente diuorum, aethera nonnulli flagrantem ui flammea atque ardoris inextinguibili uastitate? quod si liquet et constat, nullus ergo omnino est uobis auctoribus Iuppiter, qui patre editus Saturno atque Ope matre, ut genitoris euaderet rabiem, in Cretensium finibus memoratur esse celatus. iam uero Iunonem opinatio nonne consimilis deorum tollit e censu? nam si aer illa est, quemadmodum uos ludere ac dictitare consuestis Graeci nominis praeposteritate repetita, nulla soror et coniunx omnipotentis reperietur Iouis, nulla Fluuionia, nulla † Pomana, nulla Ossipagina, nulla Februtis Populonia Cinxia Caprotina, atque ita reperietur inanissima esse istius nominis fictio opinionis uacuae celebritate.
For what shall we say of Jupiter himself, whom the wise have often called the sun, driving winged chariots with a crowd of gods following, and some the ether, blazing with fiery force and an unquenchable vastness of heat? If this is clear and established, then on your own authority there is no Jupiter at all, who was born of Saturn his father and Ops his mother and is said to have been hidden in the land of Crete to escape his father's rage. And does not a similar opinion remove Juno from the roll of gods? For if she is the air, as you are accustomed to play and repeat by reversing the Greek name, there will be found no sister and wife of almighty Jupiter, no Fluonia, no ..., no Ossipagina, no Februtis, Populonia, Cinxia, Caprotina; and so the fiction of this name will be found to be utterly empty, spread abroad by the fame of an empty opinion.
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
Notes and citation
Summary: If Jupiter is the sun or ether and Juno the air, the mythical Jupiter and Juno with all their cult titles do not exist.
- The Stoics derived Hera (Juno) from aer ('air') by rearranging the letters. Fluonia, Ossipagina, Februtis, Populonia, Cinxia, and Caprotina are cult titles of Juno; one name is corrupt ('† Pomana'). The last word of the sentence, 'uulgata', stands at the start of 3.31 in the digital text; it is translated here. 'loue' in the digital text is corrected to 'Ioue'.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (misread letter in the digital text): loue → Ioue.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.30 (CSEL 4:132; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-30). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.31CSEL 4:132–133
uulgata. Aristoteles, ut Granius memorat, uir ingenio praepotens atque in doctrina praecipuus Mineruam esse Lunam probabilibus argumentis explicat et litterata auctoritate demonstrat. eandem hanc alii aetherium uerticem et summitatis ipsius esse summam dixerunt, memoriam nonnulli, unde ipsum nomen Minerua quasi quaedam Meminerua formatum est. quodsi accipit res fidem, nulla est ergo Metis filia, nulla Victoriae *, nulla Iouis elata de cerebro inuentrix oleae, nulla magisteriis artium et disciplinarum uarietatibus erudita. quod aqua nubat terram, appellatus est, inquiunt, cognominatusque Neptunus. si ergo liquoris optentio nominis huius appellatione signatur, nullus deus est omnino Neptunus, atque ita tollitur et remouetur e medio Stygii frater Iouis Olympiique germanus, tridenti armatus ferro, pistricum dominus atque maenarum, rex salsorum gurgitum et tremebundi motator soli.
Aristotle, as Granius records, a man of mighty intellect and outstanding in learning, explains with plausible arguments and shows by learned authority that Minerva is the moon. Others have said that she is the ethereal summit and the height of the highest itself; some that she is memory, from which the very name Minerva was formed, as though Meminerva. If this is believed, then there is no daughter of Metis, no ... of Victory, no discoverer of the olive sprung from the brain of Jupiter, none instructed in the teaching of the arts and in various disciplines. 'Because water covers the earth,' they say, 'he was named and called Neptune.' If, then, the spreading of liquid is signified by this name, there is no god Neptune at all; and so the brother of the Stygian Jupiter and of the Olympian is taken away and removed, the one armed with the iron trident, lord of sea monsters and small fish, king of the salt depths, and shaker of the trembling ground.
Notes and citation
Summary: Allegories making Minerva the moon or memory and Neptune the sea-water likewise abolish these gods.
- Granius Flaccus was a Roman antiquarian. The etymology 'quod aqua nubat terram' (Neptunus from nubere, 'to cover') is Varro's. A word is missing after 'no' (marked in the edition). The first word in the digital text, 'uulgata', belongs to the end of 3.30.
Extrabiblical texts: Aristotle (Aristotle (works); allusion); Varro (Varro; allusion)
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.31 (CSEL 4:132–133; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-31). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.32CSEL 4:133
Mercurius etiam quasi quidam Medicurrius dictus est, et quod inter loquentes duo media currat et reciprocetur oratio, nominis huius concinnata est qualitas. ergo si haec ita sunt, non est dei Mercurius nomen sed sermonis reciprocantis et uocis, atque ita hoc pacto aboletur et extinguitur caduceator ille Cyllenius in algido fusus monte, uerborum excogitator et nominum, nundinarum mercium commerciorumque mutator. terram quidam e uobis, quod cunctis sufficiat animantibus uictum, Matrem esse dixerunt Magnam, eamdem hanc alii, quod salutarium seminum frugem gerat, Cererem esse pronuntiant, nonnulli autem Vestam, quod in mundo stet sola ceteris eius partibus mobilitate in perpetua constitutis. quod si ratione profertur et adseueratur certa, trina pariter numina uobis interpretibus nulla sunt: non Ceres, non Vesta deorum esse computabuntur in fastis, non ipsa denique Mater Deum, quam Nigidius autumat matrimonium tenuisse Saturni, dea recte poterit nuncupari, siquidem unius terrae haec sunt omnia nomina et his sola praedicationibus indicatur.
Mercury too has been called, as it were, 'Medicurrius', and the quality of this name was contrived because speech runs in the middle between two speakers and passes back and forth. If this is so, Mercury is not the name of a god but of speech and voice passing to and fro; and in this way that Cyllenian herald's-staff bearer, born on the chill mountain, the deviser of words and names, the exchanger at markets, in goods, and in trade, is abolished and extinguished. Some of you have said that the earth is the Great Mother because it supplies food to all living things; others declare that this same earth is Ceres because it bears the fruit of wholesome seeds; and some that it is Vesta, because it alone stands still in the world while its other parts are set in perpetual motion. If this is put forward with reason and asserted with certainty, then, on your own interpretation, three deities alike are nothing: neither Ceres nor Vesta will be counted in the calendar of the gods, nor finally can the Mother of the Gods herself, whom Nigidius declares to have been married to Saturn, rightly be called a goddess, since all these are names of the one earth and it alone is indicated by these titles.
Notes and citation
Summary: Etymologies making Mercury 'speech' and the Great Mother, Ceres, and Vesta all 'the earth' abolish these gods.
- Nigidius Figulus was a Roman scholar of the first century BC. A stray period after 'media' in the digital text is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray period in the digital text): media. currat → media currat.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.32 (CSEL 4:133; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-32). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.33CSEL 4:133–134
praetermittimus hoc loco satietatis fuga Vulcanum, quem esse omnes ignem pari uoce pronuntiatis ac sensu, quod ad cunctos ueniat, Venerem, et quod sata in lucem proserpant, cognominatam esse Proserpinam: qua rursus in parte trium capita numinum tollitis, siquidem primum elementi est nomen, non sentientis uocabulum potestatis, libidinis alterum per cuncta animantia diffusae, tertium uero significat attollentia se germina et frugum subcrescentium motiones. quid, cum Liberum Apollinem Solem unum esse contenditis numen uocabulis amplificatum tribus, nonne sententiis uestris deorum imminuitur census et opinio praeiudicata dilabitur? nam si uerum est, solem eundem Liberum esse eundemque Apollinem, sequitur ut in rerum natura neque Apollo sit aliquis neque Liber, atque ita per uos ipsos aboletur, eraditur Semeleius, Pythius, alter feculentae hilaritatis dator, Sminthiorum alter pernicies murum.
We pass over here, to avoid tedium, Vulcan, whom you all declare with one voice and sense to be fire; Venus, so named because she comes to all; and Proserpina, so called because the sown seeds creep forth into the light. In this part again you remove the persons of three deities, since the first is the name of an element, not the word for a sentient power; the second of the lust spread through all living things; and the third signifies the shoots raising themselves and the movements of crops growing up. What, when you maintain that Liber, Apollo, and the Sun are one deity enlarged with three names, is not the roll of the gods diminished by your opinions, and the prejudged belief brought to nothing? For if it is true that the sun is the same as Liber and the same as Apollo, it follows that in the nature of things there is neither any Apollo nor any Liber; and so, by yourselves, the son of Semele and the Pythian are abolished and erased, the one the giver of muddy merriment, the other the destroyer of the mice of Sminthe.
Notes and citation
Summary: Identifying Vulcan with fire, Venus with desire, Proserpina with sprouting crops, and Liber and Apollo with the sun abolishes these gods too.
- The etymologies play on Latin words: Venus from venire ('to come'), Proserpina from proserpere ('to creep forth'). Apollo Smintheus was worshiped as a destroyer of mice.
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.33 (CSEL 4:133–134; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-33). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.34CSEL 4:134
non indocti, apud uos uiri neque quod induxerit libido garrientes Dianam Cererem Lunam caput esse unius deae † triuiali germanitate pronuntiant neque ut sunt trinae dissimilitudines nominum, personarum dissidentias tres esse: Lunam his omnibus uocari atque in eius uocamen reliquorum seriem coaceruatam esse cognominum. quod si exploratum, si fixum est atque ita si esse rei ueritas monstrat, cassum iterum nomen est Cereris, cassum Dianae, atque ita perducitur res eo, ut et illa frugum, sicut perhibetis, inuentrix uobis ducibus atque auctoribus nulla sit, et expolietur Apollo germana, quam quondam puris in fontibus abluentem membrorum sordes corniger ille uenator inspexit et poenam curiositatis inuenit.
Men among you who are not unlearned, and not chattering whatever fancy suggests, declare that Diana, Ceres, and the Moon are the person of one goddess ..., and that there are not three distinct persons, as there are three different names: that she is called the Moon in all these, and that the series of the other titles is heaped together into her name. If this is ascertained and fixed, and if the truth of the matter shows it so, then again the name of Ceres is empty and that of Diana is empty; and so it comes to this, that on your guidance and authority there is no discoverer of crops, as you declare, and Apollo is robbed of his sister, whom once, as she washed the dirt from her limbs in pure springs, that horned hunter saw and found the punishment of his curiosity.
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
Notes and citation
Summary: If Diana and Ceres are both the moon, then neither Ceres the giver of crops nor Diana the sister of Apollo exists.
- The horned hunter is Actaeon, turned into a stag for seeing Diana bathing. A word is corrupt before 'and that' ('† triuiali').
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.34 (CSEL 4:134; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-34). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.35CSEL 4:134–135
in philosophiae memorabiles studio atque ad istius nominis columen uobis laudatoribus eleuati uniuersam istam molem mundi, cuius omnes amplexibus ambimur, tegimur ac sustinemur, animans esse unum sapiens rationale consultum probabili adseueratione definiunt: quorum si est uera, fixa et certa sententia, etiam illi continuo desinent dii esse quos in eius portionibus paulo ante immutatis nominibus constituebatis. ut enim homo unus nequit permanente sui corporis integritate in homines multos scindi, neque homines rursus multi disiunctionis differentia conseruata in unius sensus * simplicitatemque conflari, si ita mundus unum est animal et unius mentis agitatione motatur, nec in plura potest numina dissipari nec si eius particulae dii sunt, in unius animantis conscientiam cogi atque uertier. luna sol tellus aether astra membra sunt et mundi partes: quod si partes et membra sunt, animalia utique sui nominis non sunt: neque enim partes hoc ipsum esse quod totum est aliqua in re possunt, aut sibi sapere, sibi sentire, quod sine totius animantis adsensu nullis propriis adficiatur e motibus: quo constituto ac posito summa omnis illuc redit, ut neque sol deus sit neque luna neque aether, tellus et cetera. sunt enim partes mundi, non specialia numinum nomina, atque ita perficitur omnia uobis turbantibus miscentibusque diuina, ut in rerum natura unus deus constituatur mundus explosis omnibus ceteris, omnino inaniter, uacue et sine ulla substantia constitutis.
Men memorable in the pursuit of philosophy, and raised by your praises to the pinnacle of that name, define with plausible assertion that this whole mass of the world, in whose embrace we are all surrounded, covered, and supported, is one living being, wise, rational, and deliberate. If their opinion is true, fixed, and certain, those too will at once cease to be gods whom you established a little while ago in its parts under changed names. For as one man cannot, while the integrity of his body remains, be split into many men, nor again many men, keeping their distinctness, be fused into the ... and simplicity of one mind; so, if the world is one animal and is moved by the action of one mind, it cannot be broken up into several deities, nor, if its particles are gods, can they be forced and turned into the consciousness of one living being. Moon, sun, earth, ether, and stars are members and parts of the world; and if they are parts and members, they are surely not living beings in their own name. For parts cannot in any respect be the very thing that the whole is, or be wise for themselves or feel for themselves, since without the assent of the whole living being they are affected by no motions of their own. When this is established and laid down, the whole sum comes back to this: that neither the sun is a god, nor the moon, nor the ether, the earth, and the rest. For they are parts of the world, not special names of deities; and so it comes about, while you disturb and mix up all divine things, that one god is established in the nature of things, the world, all the rest being hissed off the stage, established wholly in vain, emptily, and without any substance.
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
Notes and citation
Summary: If the world is one living being, as the Stoics hold, its parts cannot be separate gods, and only the world itself would be divine.
- The view that the world is a single rational living being is Stoic (and Platonic, Timaeus 30b). A gap is marked in the edition before 'and simplicity'. A stray period after 'deus' in the digital text is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray period in the digital text): unus deus. constituatur → unus deus constituatur.
Extrabiblical texts: Plato, Tim. 30b (Plato (works); allusion)
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.35 (CSEL 4:134–135; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-35). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.36CSEL 4:135
si totidem nos modis totidemque sententiis deorum uestrorum subrueremus fidem, nulli esset dubium, quin ira et rabie concitati ignes, feras et gladios atque alia postularetis suppliciorum in nos genera, quibus sitim soletis uestram nostri sanguinis adpetitione proluere. cum uero per uos ipsos prope omnis gens numinum sub ostentatione tollatur ingeniorum atque doctrinae, audetis intendere, nostri nominis causa res humanas ab diis premi, cum quidem, si uerum est esse illos uspiam atque incalescere irarum flammis, nihil habeant iustius propter quod in uos saeuiant quam quod eos negatis subsistere neque ulla esse in parte naturae.
If we undermined belief in your gods in as many ways and with as many opinions, no one would doubt that, roused by anger and rage, you would demand fires, beasts, swords, and the other kinds of punishment against us with which you are accustomed to quench your thirst by craving our blood. But since almost the whole race of deities is removed by you yourselves under the display of intellect and learning, do you dare to maintain that human affairs are oppressed by the gods because of our name? For indeed, if it is true that they exist anywhere and grow hot with the flames of anger, they have no juster reason to rage against you than that you deny that they exist and are in any part of nature.
Notes and citation
Summary: The pagans' own allegorizing philosophers abolish the gods more thoroughly than Christians do, so any divine anger should fall on them.
- 'ueram' in the digital text is corrected to 'uerum'.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (misread letter in the digital text): si ueram est → si uerum est.
Topics: Persecution
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.36 (CSEL 4:135; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-36). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.37CSEL 4:135–136
Musas Mnaseas est auctor filias esse Telluris et Caeli, Iouis ceteri praedicant ex Memoria uxore uel Mente, has quidam uirgines, alii matres fuisse conscribunt. libet enim iam paucis etiam illas partes attingere, quibus alius aliud eadem de re dicere opinionum diuersitate monstramini. Ephorus has igitur numero esse tris effert, Mnaseas, quem diximus, quattuor, Myrtilus inducit septem, octo adseuerat Crates, ad extremum Hesiodus nouem cum nominibus prodit, dis caelum et sidera locupletans. nisi fallimur, ista dissensio nihil scientium uerum est, non ab rei ueritate descendens. nam si liquido sciretur quid sit, esset unanimis uox omnium et in eiusdem sententiae finem cunctorum pergeret et conueniret adsensio.
Mnaseas is the authority that the Muses are daughters of Earth and Heaven; the others declare them daughters of Jupiter by his wife Memory, or Mind; some write that they were virgins, others that they were mothers. For I would now like to touch briefly also on those points in which you are shown to say one thing and another about the same matter through the diversity of opinions. Ephorus, then, states that they are three in number; Mnaseas, whom we mentioned, four; Myrtilus brings in seven; Crates asserts eight; finally Hesiod gives nine with their names, enriching heaven and the stars with gods. Unless we are mistaken, this disagreement belongs to people who know nothing true, and does not come from the truth of the matter. For if what it is were clearly known, the voice of all would be unanimous, and the assent of all would proceed and meet in the conclusion of the same opinion.
Notes and citation
Summary: Pagan authors disagree about the parentage and number of the Muses, which shows that they know nothing certain.
- Mnaseas, Ephorus, Myrtilus, and Crates were Greek writers; Hesiod names nine Muses in Theogony 75–79. A stray semicolon in the digital text is removed.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (stray punctuation in the digital text): uirgines;, alii → uirgines, alii.
Extrabiblical texts: Hesiod, Theog. 75–79 (Hesiod, Theogony; allusion)
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.37 (CSEL 4:135–136; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-37). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.
3.38CSEL 4:136–137
quonam modo igitur religionis potestis integrare uim plenam, cum circa ipsos erretis deos, aut ad uenerabiles inuitare nos cultus, cum nihil nos certi de ipsorum numinum comprehensione doceatis? ut enim de mediis conticiscamus auctoribus, aut ille primus eradit atque interficit sex diuas [Musas], si esse illas constat nouem, aut iste ultimus et extremus sex adponit, quae nullae sunt tribus solis in ueritate constantibus, ut neque sciri possit aut comprehendi, quaenam debeant addi, quae demi, et in periculum deducatur religionis ipsius susceptio, aut id quod non est colens aut quod sit fortasse praeteriens. Nouensiles Piso deos esse credit nouem in Sabinis apud Trebiam constitutos. hos Granius Musas putat consensum adcommodans Aelio, nouenarium numerum tradit Varro, quod in mouendis rebus potentissimus semper habeatur et maximus, nouitatum Cornificius praesides, quod curantibus his omnia nouitate integrentur et constent, deos nouem Manilius quibus solis Iuppiter potestatem iaciendi sui permiserit fulminis. Cincius numina peregrina nouitate ex ipsa appellata pronuntiat; nam solere Romanos religiones urbium superatarum partim priuatim per familias spargere, partim publice consecrare, ac ne aliqui deorum multitudine aut ignorantia praeteriretur, breuitatis et compendii causa uno pariter nomine cunctos Nouensiles inuocari.
How then can you restore the full force of religion, when you err about the gods themselves, or invite us to venerable worship when you teach us nothing certain about the understanding of the deities themselves? For, to say nothing of the authors in between, either the first erases and kills six goddesses, if it is established that there are nine, or the last and final one adds six who are nothing, if only three truly exist; so that it cannot be known or grasped which ought to be added and which taken away, and the very undertaking of religion is brought into danger, either worshiping what does not exist or perhaps passing over what does. Piso believes that the Novensiles are nine gods established among the Sabines at Trebia. Granius thinks they are the Muses, agreeing with Aelius; Varro teaches that they are the number nine, because it is always held most powerful and greatest in moving things; Cornificius, that they are the guardians of renewal, because by their care all things are renewed and stand firm; Manilius, that they are the nine gods to whom alone Jupiter granted the power of hurling his thunderbolt. Cincius declares that they are foreign deities named from their very novelty; for the Romans used partly to spread the religions of conquered cities privately among families and partly to consecrate them publicly, and, so that none of the gods might be passed over through their multitude or through ignorance, for the sake of brevity and conciseness all were invoked together under one name, Novensiles.
Notes and citation
Summary: Roman antiquarians give contradictory accounts of the gods called Novensiles, so worshipers cannot know whom they are honoring.
- Piso, Granius, Aelius, Varro, Cornificius, Manilius, and Cincius were Roman antiquarians and annalists. The edition deletes 'Musas' as a gloss.
Extrabiblical texts: Varro (Varro; allusion)
Cite (SBL): Arnobius, Nat. 3.38 (CSEL 4:136–137; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/arnobius-nationes/3-13/#p-3-38). (abbreviation not yet checked)
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Translation: Translated by Claude from the Latin text of Reifferscheid, CSEL 4 (1875); made independently of existing English translations and compared afterwards with ANF 6.