On Prayer 5.4
Summary: A further objection: if Scripture says some are sinners from the womb and others chosen before birth, as Jacob and Esau were, prayer seems to change nothing.
Textual problem in this passage: the printed text is uncertain or disputed here. See the notes.
Greek text · Koetschau 2:309–310
εἰ δὲ καὶ „ἠλλοτριώθησαν ἁμαρτωλοὶ ἀπὸ μήτρας, “ καὶ ἀφώρισται ὁ δίκαιος „ἐκ κοιλίας μητρὸς, “ (καὶ) „μήπω μήτε γεννηθέντων μήτε πραξάντων τι ἀγαθὸν ἢ φαῦλον, ἵνα ἡ κατʼ ἐκλογὴν πρόθεσις τοῦ θεοῦ μένῃ, οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων ἀλλʼ ἐκ τοῦ καλοῦντος, “ λέγεται· „ὁ μείζων δουλεύσει τῷ ἐλάττονι, “ μάτην περὶ ἀφέσεως ἁμαρτημάτων ἀξιοῦμεν ἢ περὶ τοῦ πνεῦμα ἰσχύος λαβεῖν, ἵνα „πάντα“ ἰσχύσωμεν ἐνδυναμοῦντος ἡμᾶς Χριστοῦ. εἰ μὲν γὰρ „ἁμαρτωλοί“ ἐσμεν, „ἀπὸ μήτρας“ ἠλλοτριώμεθα· εἰ δὲ ἀφωρίσθημεν „ἐκ κοιλίας μητρὸς“ ἡμῶν, τὰ κάλλιστα καὶ μὴ εὐχομένοις ἀπαντήσεται. ποίαν γὰρ εὐχὴν προσαγαγὼν Ἰακὼβ, πρὶν γεννηθῆναι, προφητεύεται ὅτι „ὑπερέξει“ τοῦ Ἠσαῦ, καὶ „δουλεύσει“ αὐτῷ ὁ ἀδελφός; τί δὲ ἀσεβήσας ὁ „Ἠσαῦ“ μισεῖται πρὶν γεννηθῆναι; ἵνα τί δὲ εὔχεται Μωϋσῆς, ὡς ἐν ὀγδοηκοστῷ ἐνάτῳ εὕρηται ψαλμῷ, εἰ „καταφυγὴ“ αὐτοῦ ἐστιν ὁ θεὸς „πρὸ τοῦ ὄρη ἑδρασθῆναι καὶ πλασθῆναι τὴν γῆν καὶ τὴν οἰκουμένην;“.........
English · Claude translation
And if “sinners are estranged from the womb,” and the righteous man is set apart “from his mother's womb,” and when “they were not yet born and had done nothing good or bad, so that God's purpose according to election might stand, not from works but from him who calls,” it is said, “The elder will serve the younger,” then we ask in vain for the forgiveness of sins, or to receive a spirit of strength, so that we may be able to do “all things” with Christ strengthening us. For if we are “sinners,” we have been estranged “from the womb”; but if we were set apart “from” our “mother's womb,” the best things will come to us even if we do not pray. For what prayer did Jacob offer before he was born, that it should be prophesied that he would “surpass” Esau and that his brother would “serve” him? And what impiety had “Esau” committed, that he was hated before he was born? And why does Moses pray, as is found in the eighty-ninth psalm, if God is his “refuge” “before the mountains were established and the earth and the world were formed”? …
About this passage
Notes
Translation notes
- The objection is still being stated. The quotations are Ps 58:3 (57:4 LXX), Gal 1:15, Rom 9:11–13, Phil 4:13, Gen 25:23, Mal 1:2–3, and Ps 90:1–2 (89:1–2 LXX; Origen gives the Greek number). There is a gap in the manuscript at the end (marked “…”).
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (misplaced accent in the digital text): μάτὴν → μάτην.
Cite this passage
Origen, Or. 5.4 (trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/origen-oratione/5/4/).
Plain text
Origen, Or. 5.4 (trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/origen-oratione/5/4/).
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